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Old 22-06-2012, 21:56   #1
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Need some help from our European brothers or sisters

I say "Need some help from our European brothers or sisters" only because the Bosch Regulators for a Dynamos were hardly ever used in the states.

So whom I am looking for is most likely an Heavy Truck/Bus Mechanic from the 50's and 60's and either has a good memory, or an old repair manual. For Bosch Dynamos and Regulators.

The boat I rewired stem to stern, the owner decided he wants it all original. Which meant removing the alternators and replacing with new old stock dynamos and regulators.

The start circuit is a pair of 24 volt Delco now as originally installed, rebuilt gennies and new regulators, I flashed the fields (I Circuit, flashed the same as A Circuits, just has an Isolated Ground) and both are charging.

The House bank circuit now as originally installed a pair of 12 volt Bosch 80 amp gennies, one old regulator and one new old stock. I flashed the field (B Circuit) which also has an isolated ground....no charge to the bats.

Starboard side which has the original regulator is putting out 14.5 volt at the gennie, but it does not pass through the regulator to battery, that means the cut out relay needs some adjusting...but I have no specks.

The Port side put out 16 volts when I full field pole shoes bypassing the regulator, which means the point on the field coil needs some adjusting, but just as the Starboard side the cut out relay does not pass gen voltage/current through to the bats.

So I need a manual to set the point gaps...other wise I'm just taking a shot in the dark, and if the regulators get fried there is no replacing them.

I am attaching pics below.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Lloyd


Restoration of a 1964 15 meter Italian built Bagietto

Regulator Re-Install....sorry the picture seems to vibrate....it must be the vibrating coils in the regulators

12 volt 80 amp Bosch Dynamos

One of the original toasted regulators

Same as above different view

same as above different view

Pic of the charge circuit
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Old 23-06-2012, 02:41   #2
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Re: Need some help from our European brothers or sisters

might want to try here


Classic cars & articles on vehicle restoration at OldClassicCar.
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Old 23-06-2012, 03:23   #3
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Re: Need some help from our European brothers or sisters

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
Dude thanks,

if nothing else I found this little jewel.

but be sure i will google that site to death.

T...k's again,

Lloyd

Quote:
Forget all the nonsense about magnetic fields and the flow of electrons along conductors, for it is just a lot of eyewash! It’s a myth put about by car electricians to support their lavish lifestyle at our expense!

The reality is smoke! When you think about it, it all becomes startlingly obvious; smoke makes all electrical things function. If the smoke escapes, the component stops working. For example, the last time you had a grovel under your car to replace the starter motor, didn’t it start smoking before it stopped working? Of course!

The wiring loom in your car carries smoke from one component to another, pumped around the system by the dynamo, and when a wire springs a leak it lets all the smoke out and everything stops. The starter motor needs a lot of smoke to work properly, so it has a very thick wire going to it. The battery stores large quantities of smoke dissolved in “battery acid”, which is why they were called accumulators (until it became apparent that we home mechanics would twig to the secret). Naturally, if you try to store too much smoke in your battery it will escape through those holes in the top – this is why those new fangled batteries with sealed tops explode when they get too much smoke in them.

But, with regard to Joseph Lucas and his sullied reputation (Prince of Darkness), why is he so maligned? Why are Lucas components more likely to leak smoke than Bosch or Marelli? Because Lucas is British, and all things British leak. British engines leak oil, British sports cars leak rain, British hydrolastic units leak fluid, and British electrical components leak smoke!!!

By the way, Lucas headlamps have 3 positions: Off, Dim and Flicker.

Best wishes, Dave B
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Old 23-06-2012, 03:35   #4
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Re: Need some help from our European brothers or sisters

wery funny!,and true!

if nothing else the unit looks very similar to the old lucas units!
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Old 23-06-2012, 03:40   #5
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Re: Need some help from our European brothers or sisters

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wery funny!,and true!

if nothing else the unit looks very similar to the old lucas units!
so did Lucas knock of Bosch? or Did Bosch knock of Lucas.

It was the Great war between the Brits and the Germans...right?

Lloyd
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Old 23-06-2012, 03:46   #6
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Re: Need some help from our European brothers or sisters

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so did Lucas knock of Bosch? or Did Bosch knock of Lucas.

It was the Great war between the Brits and the Germans...right?

Lloyd
they probably both nicked the switching technology off the italians

i think it was martinelli who were the italian patent holders! post ww1
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Old 23-06-2012, 04:01   #7
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Re: Need some help from our European brothers or sisters

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they probably both nicked the switching technology off the italians

i think it was martinelli who were the italian patent holders! post ww1
Why you must mean Vibrating...not switching...

As these regs are vibrators...

switching came in the 60's...

these were installed in the 64 by the Itialians, and eveybody know how far behind they were.

Quote:
i think it was martinelli who were the italian patent holders! post ww1
now ya tell me it's an Italian first design...

sounds like espionage.....

but really I don't want to jack this topic to far out of bounds, caus e I really need to find the manual.

T...k's

Lloyd


L
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Old 23-06-2012, 04:14   #8
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Re: Need some help from our European brothers or sisters

Quote:
the owner has a nice boat, has a ton of money in it by most standards, you have rewired it stem to stern, and now he wants an antiquated
charging system installed?

is this boat a harbor queen? if so i suppose he can have whatever he wants,

on the other hand if he wants to put out to sea? and trust the antique system with his life?

don't make sense to me at all.

but then again it ain't my boat or my money, and it damn sure ain't gonna be my life either.

good luck Lloyd, you are a far better man than i am. at least a far more understanding a patient man than me.



bob g
Hi Bob,

Nice to hear from you. I think not better or more patient. It's a customer, and you know the old saying the customer's always right.

Believe me when I started this job, I counseled the customer on the value of alts over gens...but to no avail. This is the boat that has twin 8-71 detroits about 450hp.

When I took on the job it had two 555 LN alts 12 volt, it been converted to 12 volt start. So one of the first jobs was to remove the 12 volt super starters, and replace with new 24 volt starters, which in my mind was a good thing. Then all new bats for the start circuit, and resource the factory original 24 dynamos and mounts. Which meant demoing the 555LN's, while Mr. Customer was in Italy, when he returned he showed up with 2 NOS 12 volt 80 Bosch Dynamos, and 1 NOS Regulator, and a used regulator.

I had originally believed that after the change to the 24 volt start circuit dynamos(which wasn't entirely bad) that I would just mount the 555LN's in place of the Bosch stuff(I never believed for a moment that he would find the 12 volt Bosch stuff).

So now I had to come up wit a resilient power design to protect the 12 v Bosch stuff(so I decided i should also protect the 24 v circuit), with no manuals nor being able to find anything about them online. I dismantled one of the gens, and the old burned up regulator, which gave me enough information on how to wire em up.

They are internally grounded(type B circuit), which means I could self-excite by the dash light. So I set up the dummy light off the key fused w/ a parallel circuit to the DPDT relay you see in the pictures, above the regulators. The DPDT breaks the field circuit. This gives me a fail safe upon fault in the self excite/field circuit. Then if you look close in the pictures, I also set up a fail-safe for the armature circuit. The 4 big red wires that drop down the middle of the relays, and regulators appear to terminate on a bus bar. But it is isolated terminal fuses, one for each armature of the regulators.

The gen circuit while excited off the key, can never blow the ignition circuit (start/stop) on a diesel. Plus it adds some protection to the V-regs. Based on the lack of data available if the regs burn up, then the NOS Bosch gens will be boat anchors.

These Bosch gens were on all the heavy duty trucks and buses through-out Europe until the 70's, so I am hopping that one of our European guys will say hay I have your manuals.

Lloyd
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Old 23-06-2012, 04:21   #9
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Re: Need some help from our European brothers or sisters

is there a part number on the regulator?

most stuff is tracable that way
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Old 23-06-2012, 04:33   #10
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Re: Need some help from our European brothers or sisters

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is there a part number on the regulator?

most stuff is tracable that way
There is, I had to do a LEAD /PAPER rubbing to make it legible, but at alas I don't have the number tonight. I will post it up tomorrow.

I did a search about 8 months ago and came up wit a pic of the Reg in an eastern block langa...but Google Translate couldn't couldn't make heads or tails...nor could my wife who speak and write fluent German.

I also just did a component search of the part #'s for the vibrating coils, and the resistors, that I could read but...nota.sofar.

Lloyd
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Old 23-06-2012, 04:47   #11
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Re: Need some help from our European brothers or sisters

Bosch 12V Regulator (0190 309 019)

this is the smaller reg for up to 25 amp

you might try these guys for info on the 80 amp reg

Welcome to Auto Electric Supplies
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