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Old 23-12-2013, 19:26   #16
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Re: Melted 110v outlet

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
On top of that I always use 20 amp outlets for 15 amp circuits.
Not a good idea / practice.

That permits the current / future owner to plug-in a 20A appliance into a 15A circuit.
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Old 23-12-2013, 19:28   #17
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Re: Melted 110v outlet

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
I only use commercial/hospital grade outlets. They are built in all copper and much higher quality.

On top of that I always use 20 amp outlets for 15 amp circuits.

The builder spec Leveton is cheap and won't last in home use.

Lloyd

Lloyd,

If you use 20 amp outlets, aren't you running the risk that someone will plug in a 20 amp load? I suppose that if your wire is adequate for 20 amp service, the worst that will happen is the breaker will trip, but wouldn't it be better to match the outlets to the circuit rating?
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Old 23-12-2013, 19:56   #18
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Re: Melted 110v outlet

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Thanks all for the replies! I did a careful job with marine tinned stranded wire rated for I believe 20 or 30 amps. Crimped connections. The install was done 2006 so it's 7 years of corrosion. And no I did not open the outlets... which are Leviton Decora to check for corrosion. I will put a 15amp break in this weekend I don't run a 1500 watt heat. I use the Espar... and rarely use shore power ('cept in winter storage in water).

I will rewire the 4 outlets... It's not a terribly difficult project... just a PITA.
This sounds like a problem. From one of your earlier posts you said there was no breaker for the outlets, so they can receive the full 30A of shore power. Wiring outlets directly to that would be a big no-no. The outlets are likely rated for 15A, 20A at most, yet they can be exposed to 30A. That's bad. And I'd be surprised if your wire is "30A" which would be #10. it would be very difficult to get a #10 wire on a 15 outlet.
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Old 23-12-2013, 20:02   #19
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Re: Melted 110v outlet

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Originally Posted by Rusty123 View Post
Lloyd,

If you use 20 amp outlets, aren't you running the risk that someone will plug in a 20 amp load? I suppose that if your wire is adequate for 20 amp service, the worst that will happen is the breaker will trip, but wouldn't it be better to match the outlets to the circuit rating?
The outlets have nothing to do with load management. They are rated for 20 amps. They are the same price as 15 amp just rated for 20, meaning they are UL rated/tested to 20 amps.

The wire and the circuit breaker are the critical components for power management.

Side by side, visually the 15 and 20 look the same, internal the 20 have larger bus/conductors. Also accept larger wire.

Lloyd
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Old 23-12-2013, 20:08   #20
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Re: Melted 110v outlet

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
The outlets have nothing to do with load management. They are rated for 20 amps. They are the same price as 15 amp just rated for 20, meaning they are UL rated/tested to 20 amps.

The wire and the circuit breaker are the critical components for power management.

Side by side, visually the 15 and 20 look the same, internal the 20 have larger bus/conductors. Also accept larger wire.

Lloyd

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Old 23-12-2013, 20:17   #21
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Re: Melted 110v outlet

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This sounds like a problem. From one of your earlier posts you said there was no breaker for the outlets, so they can receive the full 30A of shore power. Wiring outlets directly to that would be a big no-no. The outlets are likely rated for 15A, 20A at most, yet they can be exposed to 30A. That's bad. And I'd be surprised if your wire is "30A" which would be #10. it would be very difficult to get a #10 wire on a 15 outlet.
For that to be the problem; to exist, you would need a load of 30 amps sustained. Nothing legal can draw 30 amps on a 15/20 amp plug, because the plugs would not fit.

Now mind you if you have two 15/1800 watt users plugged into the same outlet drawing 15/1800 watts each you could over heat the outlet, but it should trip the required 15 amp circuit breaker.....Now if as stated there are no CB's in the circuit...wow fire trap.

At 120 volt 1800 watt circuit is 15 amps, a 15 amp outlet should never be subject to 1800 watts on a continuous basis. That's exactly why I use 20 amp commercial/hospital grade outlets, they are rated for 2400 watts.

But then again I would never subject a 20 amp outlet to a continuous 2400 watt load.

Neither would I subject a 30 amp twist lock/Shore Power to a continuous 30 amp/3600 watt load.

Lloyd
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Old 23-12-2013, 20:24   #22
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Re: Melted 110v outlet

Since there are usually multiple outlets on a single circuit, it would be quite easy to hit 30 amps total load, even with 15 amp devices. Which is why individual circuit breakers are critical, since neither the receptacles, the boxes, nor the wire (unless 10 AWG) is rated for 30 amps.
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Old 23-12-2013, 20:25   #23
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Re: Melted 110v outlet

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Old 23-12-2013, 20:31   #24
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Re: Melted 110v outlet

Lloyd,

I'm sure you know this, but for those who may not, the horizontally oriented slot on the 20 amp receptacle accommodates 20 amp plug loads, which cannot physically be inserted into a 15 amp receptacle. Installing a 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit enables (or even invites) someone to overload the circuit, which is not a good practice (not to mention a code violation).
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Old 23-12-2013, 21:20   #25
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Re: Melted 110v outlet

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Lloyd,

I'm sure you know this, but for those who may not, the horizontally oriented slot on the 20 amp receptacle accommodates 20 amp plug loads, which cannot physically be inserted into a 15 amp receptacle. Installing a 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit enables (or even invites) someone to overload the circuit, which is not a good practice (not to mention a code violation).
Yea,

Just read what I actually posted!

A 20 amp load on a properly wired 15 amp circuit with the proper CB would trip the CB long before the 20 amp load was able to start.

The outlet has nothing to do with load management.

Now say we have 2 15/1800 watt loads on a 15 amp circuit properly wired, w/proper circuit breakers, it's the same. We could not draw the 2 parallel loads from the same circuit breaker; bc that would overload and cause a fault trip.

Now there was mention in the OP that the outlets were wired minus the 15 amp CB's....This is the fire trap I spoke of.

It's safe to use a 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit, just the same as it's safe to use 12 awg on a 15 amp outlet, as opposed to 14 awg. As a matter of fact it's safer to use overrated wire and outlets especially on a boat. JUST DON"T use an overrated CB for the circuit.

Lloyd
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Old 23-12-2013, 21:44   #26
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Re: Melted 110v outlet

Couple of points. You don't need to replace all outlets with GFI outlets. For outlets on the same circuit, only the first one needs to be GFI the remainder are connected to the load side of that outlet. This is common industry practice and meets code.
I would also point out that in Canada at least, the electrical code does not apply to boats, which are regulated by Transport Canada.

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Old 29-12-2013, 17:11   #27
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Re: Melted 110v outlet

Update...
I began to clean up and rewire. Discovered that the hot terminal in the Blue Sea selector switch was also very corroded... the only post which was. That's being replaced.

Whatever was the initial cause of the increased resistance seems to have heated the hot wire (12awg) and cause corrosion at other locations. The main breakers show no sign of corrosion.... BUT the outlets were not on a breaker but had been wired directly to the selector switch (a no no) without a breaker.

Installing a Main 30amp breaker, replacing the corroded selector switch and moving the outlets to a 15amp breaker protected circuit. The water heater which is not used at on shore power anyway... has been removed from the 15 amp protected circuit. That one now is for the outlets.

I may be replacing all the 12awg wiring for the outlet circuits. It has not been inspected except the first run where the problem was... That's being replaced. Installing GFI at first outlet.
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