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Old 08-11-2013, 10:29   #46
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Re: Lithium Batteries /vs/ Fire safety?

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
a third Tesla electric car burned up yesterday. That's 3 in 3 weeks according to the report. Stock dropped big time yesterday.
Different format, different chemistry, are you suggesting something or just a news reporter?
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:39   #47
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Re: Lithium Batteries /vs/ Fire safety?

cheechako-
"a third Tesla electric car burned up yesterday."

Well, let's put it in perspective. The last one managed to stuff a piece of metal roadside debris through an "armor" shield and impale a battery assembly. You really can't blame the company for not putting heavier armor on the cars, after all, isn't that the same Tesla that literally BROKE the federal impact testing equipment?

Of interest is that Tesla uses thousands of the 18650 cells, just like a laptop, exactly the same as the ones that (oops) burned down the two battery plants in Japan.

Coming back on point, one might ask "And what was the firefighting response?" Apparently, stand back and pass out marshmallows on sticks. There's not much to be done with a fully involved vehicle fire in any case, just let it burn out so the owner can collect on his insurance rather than have extensive repairs.

FWIW these days if you call 911 (here in the colonies) the script they read will ask you "Is this a hybrid or alternate energy vehicle?" because responders are VERY concerned with questions of how to handle high voltages, compressed gasses, and all the other new toys.

Pass the marshmallows, please. And would you prefer a nice cup of cocoa, or some cold beer with that?
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:19   #48
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Re: Lithium Batteries /vs/ Fire safety?

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Oh, Mac, you really are confused.
<<Edit: IIRC, the OP stated that there is "no way these batteries can be used safely on boats" [paraphrased]>>
Either I did or didn't state it, it isn't that hard to make sure if you're going to quote someone OR paraphrase them. And in either case, you might look at the context and the whole statement, rather than take snippets of your imagination and then decree them to be accurate facts.
You know very well that the I, the OP, never made any such statement and you know that what I did say in substantially different. This is why I am forced to believe that your recollections and "facts" about batteries are probably equally inaccurate or intentionally in error.
I didn't make that statement, I posited a question, giving the information that I had based it on, and I've posted the additional information that I've found, as I've found it. No thanks to you, because you've contributed nothing here. Quite the contrary, you've created incorrect "facts" time after time to support your own totally unsubstantiated point of view.
Hellosailor post #4
"There's no safe way to have one of those on a boat, without the $650 extinguisher, is there?"

Your post has revealed more about you than me.
Mac
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:24   #49
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Originally Posted by evm1024 View Post

Sorry Dave,

I only quoted an article and I am not the author.

Oh, and by the way you assert:

Its a safer technology once engineering right (like a lot of things) , within the Li family there are many tech variants and some like LIFE, have very safe characteristics, arguable much safer then LA batteries.

But fail to include any citeable references to those assertions.

If I were playing games with words I would read your words to say that lithium technology will be safer once is engineered right (and thus not safe yet).

But I think that we can have a better discussion than that....

Regards
Any power storage technology of sufficient capability is dangerous if it is placed in a system that is engineered incorrectly

Li technology has specific charge and discharge characteristics , engineered appropriately they are completely safe.

Dave
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:29   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith_Mac View Post
On properties and transport:
There's a convenient table here with data, including a safety rating, on Li, Nm, and LA battery types.
LiFePO4 Batteries

From IATA re. AIR transport of Lithium Batteries, look for the new section 1B, they are class 9, same as dry ice I think. Large cells such as we use are not specifically addressed and appear to be limped in with cellphone batts etc.
In short they cannot be transported on passenger aircraft and LiFePo4 is treated the same as the more unstable types. Transport aircraft can carry them.
IATA - Lithium Battery Regulatory Change
Beyond suitable packaging and labeling there appear to be no restrictions on surface transport. Anywhere.
I have read they will not be sent out more than 50% charged, I have also read they can be, so this may not be a regulatory issue.

The restrictions on the transport of FLA or AGM batteries is also not simple, a fact often overlooked.
Fedex has added its own requirements which appear to be a good money maker and couriers are following suit ie, surcharges.
Cheers,
Mac
My 30g co2 cylinder is also forbidden by my airline , lets not start using IATA rules to justify anything one way or the other

Dave
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:46   #51
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Re: Lithium Batteries /vs/ Fire safety?

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
My 30g co2 cylinder is also forbidden by my airline , lets not start using IATA rules to justify anything one way or the other

Dave
Dave,
Perhaps you could have cautioned the OPs claims about air transport restrictions when he made them?
When trying to clarify air transport restrictions, which codes should be referenced or quoted?
The IATA and FEDEX references are to clarify rather sweeping statements, on which you had nothing to say, with facts one would confront if for some reason you would want to airfreight batteries.
Mac
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:57   #52
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Re: Lithium Batteries /vs/ Fire safety?

"Your post has revealed more about you than me."
yes it does Mac. You quoted me out of context and inaccurately as STATING they could not be used safely, when the quote clearly shows I ASKED, not STATED, and ASKED IF they could be used safely. Totally the opposite of what and how you are reading it.
Mac, you're either intentionally trying to create a personal fight, or you've got some major reading comprehension issues. Either way, you've contributed nothing to the thread, so please, go find someone else to annoy.
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Old 18-11-2013, 01:17   #53
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Thetes soo much speculation out there
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