Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 27-05-2018, 08:29   #1
Registered User
 
CatNewBee's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: Lagoon 400S2
Posts: 749
LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley...

Hi there, finally installed everything and it is running now for 3 days without shore any power or generator.

I open a new tread so I can keep track on eventual uprising questions to the set up, many details I have already posted separately in other LFP treads.

First - It is a DIY project.

The vessel: Lagoon 400S2 owners version, 2kVA inverter Mastervolt, Mastershunt, 480Ah GEL battery, onan generator 220v / 9kVA, A/C, watermaker factory installed.
3x 140Wp solar over the davits retrofitted by the former owner, crappy Steka PRS 3030 pwm controller.

New installed components and why I chose them:

4x 1000Ah Winston Thundersky cells, good price/Ah, compact and powerfull, easy to install, no issues with parallelling cells, cell fuses etc.

I chose the REC ABMS with custom programming, optional second temp sensor, serial touch display and the programming software package. Great BMS, active balancing, highly configurable and 4 programmable outputs - 2 NO/NC relay contacts and 2 opto-coupler.

I chose the Victron BMV712 with 1000A shunt, low power consumption, bi-stable relay output and BT remote built in.

For the solar arc I chose BenQ 96-cell panels Uoc 60V Isc 6.5A, 330Wp, as controller I chose a single Victron Smart solar 150/100 MPPT controller, it can handle 1500Wp, my system is 1650Wp - slightly overprovisioned, but it is ok, the panels are not in 90 degree angle to the sun, also some losses due to inserted string protection diodes. The system outputs up to 100A at 14V.

The inverter is a Victron Quattro 12-5000/220-100/100, that means 12V system, 5000VA inverter, 220A charger, power transfer switch to 2 outputs with up to 220V/100A.

It is a beast.

Also used 4 solenoids BlueSea ML-RBS for switching the chargers and the loads, 1 for the Quattro, one for the 12V house bank, one for the solar charger and one for the legacy charge sources.

The galley is refitted to all-electric with Siemens induction cooktop, Neff convection oven, all propane removed.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1527434974709.jpg
Views:	232
Size:	253.8 KB
ID:	170593  
__________________

CatNewBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-05-2018, 08:52   #2
Registered User
 
CatNewBee's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: Lagoon 400S2
Posts: 749
Re: LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley...

Integration / changes to the factory setup.

Obviously all GEL batteries and the Mastershunt are gone, 250A is not appropriate for the loads expected. The LFP cells were fitted in the empty battery compartment under the port aft berth, slightly modified because the LFP cells are higher, all the control installation was fitted above the battery below the drawer, it includes the solenoids, new 500A circuit breaker for the house and 2x400A for the Quattro, 150A for the MPPT etc. Also solid copper bus bars for the connections between the cells, to the breakers and to the 1000A shunt, the quattro was fitted behind the battery above the A/C unit, that will be almost not used. The MPPT controller is left of the battery replacing the MasterShunt.

The original 12V system was almost not altered, only the Cristec charger positive wires were disconnected at the main power clutches and connected via a 150A breaker to the ML-RBS legacy charger solenoid to be controlled by the BMS and the BMV712. The alternators will be disconnected from the house bank too, they will only charge the start batteries.

The generator start battery was found dead - Lagoon does not charge it by default, so the port start battery will also be used to start the Generator, this was done by connecting the battery cables of the gen battery to the terminals of the start battery, the power clutches remain in full function do distribute the battery power.

Details about the BMS programming and the solenoids on a separate post.
__________________

CatNewBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-05-2018, 09:28   #3
Registered User
 
CatNewBee's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: Lagoon 400S2
Posts: 749
Re: LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley...

Changes to the 220V system.

2 separate cables 3x6mm^2 were installed to the galley for the induction cooktop and the oven, terminating in the 220V circuit breaker housing port aft cabin behind the wall, also separate fuses 16A and 25A were installed there connected to the 40A safety switch installed by the factory.

The wire from the switchboard midships to the fuses is disconnected and extended to the Victron Quattro input 2.
The quattro output 1 is connected insted to the fuses, so the Quattro is located in betweeen. Also separate two 32A fuses are installed next to the Quattro output, one for the house and one for the A/C right behind output 1.

The Onan Generator is disconnected at the switchboard from both house inputs and one output is extended by a 3x6mm^2 cable to the Quattro input 1, so the generator is switched directly by the transfer switch of the quattro.

from the 32A fuse A/C at victron output1 a cable is wired to the switchboard A/C house input where the 2nd generator output was before. The switchboard remains operational and can now chose A/C by second shore power cord or internal via the Quattro or Generator if running.

The mastrvolt Inverter was disconnected at the relays under the chart table and both cables (inverter and volt meter) are pulled back to the powe distribution switch panel, the relays are obsolete now, the inverter output is connected to house input 1, where originally the first generator input was located - that is now directly connected to the Quattro.

The reason behind is, using the Mastervolt via the switchpanel as a 220V source on the Quattro and programming the power assist on input 2 at 8A leverages the inverter in master/slave to up to 7000VA ( 2000VA from the MassSine, through the Quattro, that contributes another 5000VA, so you safely can run loads up to 5.5kW on Inverter e.g using all 4 induction burner at full throttle.

By custom programming of the quattro it can be fully automatic based on the current load.

The full circuit diagramm was already posted in another thread.
CatNewBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-05-2018, 09:33   #4
rom
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2016
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 477
Re: LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatNewBee View Post
Hi there, finally installed everything and it is running now for 3 days without shore any power or generator.

I open a new tread so I can keep track on eventual uprising questions to the set up, many details I have already posted separately in other LFP treads.

First - It is a DIY project.

The vessel: Lagoon 400S2 owners version, 2kVA inverter Mastervolt, Mastershunt, 480Ah GEL battery, onan generator 220v / 9kVA, A/C, watermaker factory installed.
3x 140Wp solar over the davits retrofitted by the former owner, crappy Steka PRS 3030 pwm controller.

New installed components and why I chose them:

4x 1000Ah Winston Thundersky cells, good price/Ah, compact and powerfull, easy to install, no issues with parallelling cells, cell fuses etc.

I chose the REC ABMS with custom programming, optional second temp sensor, serial touch display and the programming software package. Great BMS, active balancing, highly configurable and 4 programmable outputs - 2 NO/NC relay contacts and 2 opto-coupler.

I chose the Victron BMV712 with 1000A shunt, low power consumption, bi-stable relay output and BT remote built in.

For the solar arc I chose BenQ 96-cell panels Uoc 60V Isc 6.5A, 330Wp, as controller I chose a single Victron Smart solar 150/100 MPPT controller, it can handle 1500Wp, my system is 1650Wp - slightly overprovisioned, but it is ok, the panels are not in 90 degree angle to the sun, also some losses due to inserted string protection diodes. The system outputs up to 100A at 14V.

The inverter is a Victron Quattro 12-5000/220-100/100, that means 12V system, 5000VA inverter, 220A charger, power transfer switch to 2 outputs with up to 220V/100A.

It is a beast.

Also used 4 solenoids BlueSea ML-RBS for switching the chargers and the loads, 1 for the Quattro, one for the 12V house bank, one for the solar charger and one for the legacy charge sources.

The galley is refitted to all-electric with Siemens induction cooktop, Neff convection oven, all propane removed.
Thanks for sharing all that , very interesting ! Would you show a picture of the induction cooktop integration ? What siemens model is taht ?
rom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-05-2018, 09:39   #5
Registered User
 
CatNewBee's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: Lagoon 400S2
Posts: 749
Re: LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley...

All parts are tested and running now completly off-grid for several days. Even on cloudy days the solar recharges the LFP latest at 2pm and goes to float. There are 3 fridges/freezer running on lowest temp, also espresso machine, cooking and the 40l warm water boiler with 1200W

the system is under surveillance now using the victron interfaces, the BMV, the BMS and the solar MPPT controller app.

Will post the findings later.

Will.
CatNewBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-05-2018, 09:58   #6
Registered User
 
CatNewBee's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: Lagoon 400S2
Posts: 749
Re: LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley...

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Revised 220V sources.JPG
Views:	1314
Size:	114.1 KB
ID:	170605  
CatNewBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-05-2018, 10:00   #7
Registered User
 
CatNewBee's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: Lagoon 400S2
Posts: 749
Re: LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rom View Post
Thanks for sharing all that , very interesting ! Would you show a picture of the induction cooktop integration ? What siemens model is taht ?
Siemens EX275FXB1E iQ700



It is 35cm x 91cm x 4.5cm , but a regular 60cm one could be fitted too.

A new countertop is in planning, 2 sinks will be gone, instead a waste bin with a lid will be fitted in the corner an a bigger single sink will be placed too. So the set up is not final yet.
CatNewBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2018, 01:06   #8
Registered User
 
CatNewBee's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: Lagoon 400S2
Posts: 749
Re: LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley...

Attachment 170649


Here the interfaces between the REC ABMS, the Victron BMV712 and the bi-stable 500A solenoids ML-RBS.

The circuitry and programming do the following:

the 2 relay outputs of the ABMS are used as smart fuses, they cut charge and discharge circuits off if the cell voltage goes out of an acceptable range.

the Quattro is considered a load and the solenoid is connected to the UVP (under voltage protection)

The legacy charger solenoid connects in series to the OVP (over voltage protection) charge solenoid, that shuts off the solar controller.

Legacy sources are the factory Cristec charger and the outputs of the charge distribution / battery separation diodes of the alternators.

This sources are turned on and off by the BMV712 relay based on a programmable SOC (switch on when SOC is below 50% and off when SOC reaches 80%). They are only used if the solar is unable to handle the SOC alone.

In regular operations (SOC between 51 and 100%) they only charge the spiral cells AGM start batteries.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20180528-100350.jpg
Views:	182
Size:	38.4 KB
ID:	170650  
CatNewBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2018, 01:39   #9
Registered User
 
CatNewBee's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: Lagoon 400S2
Posts: 749
Re: LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley...

The opto-coupler outputs are programmed separately to control the Victron Quattro only, the OVP opto coupler forces the charger to reduce voltage to FLOAT, the UVP opto coupler forces the Inverter to turn off on a programmable cell voltage - set to 3.1V. ways earlier than the OVP would disconnect all other loads like 12V board systems. ( set to 2.9V - it is roghly 200-300Ah of emergency power, sufficient for 24 hours of cruising ).

Main charging source is the solar array, it delivers up to 100A charge current and roughly 6...8kWh per day.

The generator provider 9kVA, using the Quattro charger there are 180 up to 220A charge current, however the Victron reduces the current most of the time to 180A.

Additionally there are the Cristek 40A legacy chargers that can provide another 80A, and of course the alternators.

All fired up together there can be up to 500A charge current, but this is unlikely to happen. The battery can be charged from empty to full in 2-3 hours.

Total usable capacity of the house bank is 15kWh (measured) because of overprovisioned cells, in fact the 1000Ah are 1300Ah cells.
CatNewBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2018, 01:44   #10
Registered User
 
CatNewBee's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: Lagoon 400S2
Posts: 749
Re: LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley...

Here the altered 220V circuit, the 32A fuses at the Quattro, the fuse on the MassSine and the fuses of the Generator are not drawn in the diagramm...

The fuses are factory installed on the generator and inverter, the Quattro was wired accordingly as best practise. The original Lagoon circuit diagramms also not show this fuses..
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20180528-104047.jpg
Views:	165
Size:	46.3 KB
ID:	170651  
CatNewBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2018, 01:55   #11
Registered User
 
CatNewBee's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: Lagoon 400S2
Posts: 749
Re: LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley...

Here the specifications of the used cells
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20180528-105355.jpg
Views:	184
Size:	121.8 KB
ID:	170652  
CatNewBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2018, 01:58   #12
Registered User
 
CatNewBee's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: Lagoon 400S2
Posts: 749
Re: LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley...

Factsheet solar panels
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20180528-105808.png
Views:	188
Size:	147.6 KB
ID:	170653  
CatNewBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2018, 08:57   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Norway / Oslo
Boat: Jeanneau 42 DS
Posts: 145
Re: LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatNewBee View Post
Here the specifications of the used cells
Nice setup, i have the same cells and BMS.

Just want to add that the specifications shows 21 KG, but this is of-course wrong, The cells are 41 kg each.
offpist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2018, 09:24   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 992
Re: LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley...

Catnew, thank u for taking all that time for posting up. How much money has been spent on this conversion? I am always amazed at how much things cost. Please share the actual costs involved. Because for most sailors we can only dream of what u r doing.

Second request, please include design costs and installation costs.
alansmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2018, 10:40   #15
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,309
Re: LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley...

Following..... my thanks also.We ran our boat with a lot of 220v but nothing like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alansmith View Post
Catnew, thank u for taking all that time for posting up. How much money has been spent on this conversion? I am always amazed at how much things cost. Please share the actual costs involved. Because for most sailors we can only dream of what u r doing.

Second request, please include design costs and installation costs.
__________________

Bulawayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
electric, galley

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: Winston 700Ah lithium cells Drelen General Classifieds (no boats) 2 20-06-2018 19:12
Cyclone Winston - Fiji Boomerang Pacific & South China Sea 2 21-02-2016 01:59
Specific Question about Voltage of LiFeYPO4 Cells JoeFish Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 11 18-06-2014 17:08



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:16.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.