Originally Posted by Highland Fling
Actually i don't.
I have already read the 126 pages and got a headache. Now 128 pages at my last look.
LiFeP04 are no more dangerous than any other battery system and yes i know about the exploding lipo batteries as i fly RC planes.
I had assumed that we all were here to help one another, seems strange to me that there are limits on that......having looked at your web pages i find this reply decidedly odd and strange.
I have no doubt i can build a 'good' LiFeP04 system - BUT like i said previously i hate reinventing the wheel
- to my mind life is too short for that.
I truly and totally don't understand that reply BUT hey your life your choices, myself i am quite willing to share all and anything i know about any topic with A N Other who asks for my help.
I am going to go through the long thread and copy all the posts, i have already copied almost 100 of them, and once i have them all i will review them and then cut out the too technical info and try and get back to basics in a nice condensed version of that thread.
For sure without any more assistance from yourself i will get there, I just don't understand that mindset - where is the difficulty in specifying a typical basic set up and then one with all the bells and whistles. You have done your research but will only share it in ways that meet your needs not actually others needs. Just think you could save many many people hours and hours of reading day weeks of research but somehow you think they need to follow you down the research it yourself route
......suggesting incorrectly of course is that this is the only way they will 'better' understand their system.
The mind boggles!!!
Wow here we go again....
I am truly sorry people are offended by this. I apologize if it offended anyone's senses and I was just trying to be HONEST and open about my feelings on this subject...
It is my true belief and I was only trying to provide insight
into why "some" might not be willing to provide the instructions down to the minutia level..
There are many good experts in that thread and perhaps one will come along and provide wiring
I was simply being honest about where I personally sit on this and why. Bad choice clearly...
It is not about being arrogant or elitist or taking down to others it is that I truly find this a line I have to draw for safety
and the safety
of YOUR wallet. My belief may not be your belief, or others, and I am sorry for that... I also notice lots of quiet from others so perhaps
I am not alone?
Please bear in mind that I do not even build LiFePO4 packs nor do installations for paying customers, at this point, because we have no safety standards to go by.
This is my main reason, in a nut shell!
Giving out the minutia level recipe here I do personally believe to be unwise, for me
, at this point in time. Between myself and others we are literally leaving 2% of the design work up to the DIY who wants to build a pack.
If any of the details were to be misconstrued it may severely dent your wallet and I do not want that. I do lots of long distance paid consults and from what I have learned from that I have to draw this line somewhere because people simply do not always follow instructions, or diagrams and then I get blamed.
As I very clearly stated when I first stepped into this my information is shared here on an ongoing basis as I research and learn it and physically use it in a boat as a house bank. I am learning
as everyone else is. This is a non mature technology and I don't personally
believe it is ready for mass DIY level builds.
If I did and I found it to be simple
and fool proof
(LiFePO4 for dummies), and we had a standard to be guided by for "safety", then you may very likely see a diagram or minutia level instructions from me..
IMHO not ready for prime time
as I have said many times before.
I am simply not ready to put myself out there on the net with diagrams and exact instructions that may not line up with future standards on this technology or to be misapplied and not followed the way they are written.
There are numerous reasons why I will talk about the theory, cautions like this
, how to balance, how to build a cell case, charging
voltages, how to program chargers or even specific parts I use but not the wiring
or actual installation
Also keep in mind that even if I may want to create a post containing all this information, in one place, which I would do, it would be very, very long and CF has NO EDITS beyond 15 or 30 minutes.
That is a deal breaker for me on what would be such a long and technical post. We are talking about a post that would have 30+ images
and thousands of words. This is not going to happen here on CF, from me, due to the paranoia over member edits
Yes some folks here lose out on my posts because sometimes technical edits need to be made for safety and I can not sit there and ask a mod to edit sentence 344 in paragraph 102 every time a simple update needs to be made or I notice a sperling
error. I can post this information elsewhere that allows me to keep the post updated, safe and applicable to current day..
Posts with that much information, that can change from time to time, in regards to standards, new information, updated manufacturer information, discontinuations of products etc. etc. require edits beyond 15 minutes other wise any corrections get lost
3400 posts deep and the original information becomes stale and out of date. This is simply not fair to readers or the person who is willing to detail this in a "book like" fashion....
LiFePO4 For Dummies:
I simply do not believe there is such a thing as LiFePO4 for dummies
nor do I believe in set it and forget it LiFePO4. That technology is called lead acid. My personal
I have said as much many times here. I also do not believe they are a wise build for everyone
at this point in time..
For example we have no good information yet as to what floating actually does over the long term because information on LiFePO4 is scarce for off grid/house bank use. Far to early in its life to know whether floating at XX voltage causes a 15% reduction or an 80% reduction in life. All your computers
and cell phones stop charging when full and do not re-engage until a low specific threshold has been triggered. Currently there are no chargers or controllers set up to do this so we have to "adapt" existing technologies many of which can not be adapted to do this sort of thing.
have chosen not to float our bank but I get challenged on that constantly by folks who want to adapt LA standards to Li. Like everyone here we are all learning
and I have chosen what I feel is a safe
process but others feel differently. It is up to readers to decide which way they want to go. There is no single
answer and that is part of the big
This is a large part of where I sit on providing exact instructions here.
I also generally do not use wiring diagrams, other than scratch paper, when laying out systems so it is something I would need to take the time to create anyway. I mainly wire from my head
, not diagrams, other than some chicken scratch layouts I may use. When my customers want diagrams I create them and that time gets billed I am up front that I am pretty darn slow at it...
I do not get paid to be here and this is all done voluntarily to share what I have learned on this technology in my free time..
CPA / House Power BMS or any other BMS maker has all the instructions for use of their product, Balmar
has theirs minus my personal LiFePO4 settings which I have already posted here.
And all this info is out there.
The fact is myself and others have provided nearly every specific bit of info one would need to build a system that works, minus the physical wiring diagram. I can't help that much of it is buried 3400 posts deep in "geekery". I too wish it was not but it is.
Threads and geekery:
As we can see this thread has already turned geekery and gone off track yet again because two people
find where I sit, on providing the last 2%, offensive. It happens, it is CF and I can't please everyone....
I too have to wade through 3400 posts very often and I know it is not fun yet there are now piles of LiFePO4 threads here and every one has turned off topic and to geekery. I am not certain LiFePO4 is simple enough to not turn to geekery at this point in time because every time someone wants to take a short cut or adapt LA technology to Li the geekery
level explanations start to happen..
I book mark specific posts into a bookmark folder by clicking on the post numer in the upper right of each post. I then rename them so they make sense and hit "bookmark"..
Again I am very, very sorry if I offended anyone's senses. That is NOT my intent but I have to stand by what I believe in.
Without at least some bare minimum safety standards and some level of industry consensus that last 2% can't and won't be coming from me as it puts me way too far out on an unsupported limb.
Some other pro's / ABYC members in this thread have stepped out onto that limb and do build customer level packs, I do not. I think that is great that they have chosen that path, I have not yet... It is interesting that not a single
one of them has provided any detailed instructions for a complete pack build. I don't see any of them under the gun, just me, because I was honest.
I will continue to talk theory, cautions, how I did this or that, why I believe this or that, comment on products or product suitability etc. etc. but actual instructions for a complete system, sorry I simply can't do that.
Remember I am still learning this technology like everyone else.....