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Old 28-04-2015, 16:50   #4471

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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Singleprop-
Per your edit, yes, that's how it was meant. As to how much power those particular batteries could supply to a crowbar short, and how much fuse would be sufficient or proper to deal with it...I leave the experts to argue the finer points. Starts to become like "How thick should the reactor containment walls be?" and then you have to ask, well, just what your preferences and budget might be.(G)
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Old 28-04-2015, 18:01   #4472
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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What battery? I am not finding anything even close to LA prices, as in 5 or more times as much. Can you provide links to reasonable priced batteries?
jwcolby54 - Based on recommendations from others in this forum, I purchased my 400 ah CALB cells from a very helpful guy named Mike Collins at Lithium Storage. English Home - Lithium Storage Inc. | Lithium Storage Inc. He sells products from the popular manufactures and was able to clearly provide me the information I needed to make my decision. And when UPS fouled up the shipment, Mike was on it! I found some lithium re-sellers to be a bit too sketchy for me, so Mike was a good find IMO.
It cost me about $2,000 to replace ~$900 of Trojan T-105's that were failing. In the process the boat lost 300 pounds of "dead lead" and gained capacity. Remember, costs can be quantified in different ways (e.g., purchase price versus cycle life), so it depends what you’re interested in. I’m going offshore and needed a system that didn't need to be routinely “topped up” to stay healthy.
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Old 28-04-2015, 18:59   #4473
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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jwcolby54 - Based on recommendations from others in this forum, I purchased my 400 ah CALB cells from a very helpful guy named Mike Collins at Lithium Storage. English Home - Lithium Storage Inc. | Lithium Storage Inc. He sells products from the popular manufactures and was able to clearly provide me the information I needed to make my decision. And when UPS fouled up the shipment, Mike was on it! I found some lithium re-sellers to be a bit too sketchy for me, so Mike was a good find IMO.
It cost me about $2,000 to replace ~$900 of Trojan T-105's that were failing. In the process the boat lost 300 pounds of "dead lead" and gained capacity. Remember, costs can be quantified in different ways (e.g., purchase price versus cycle life), so it depends what you’re interested in. I’m going offshore and needed a system that didn't need to be routinely “topped up” to stay healthy.
Hey, I understand completely. What voltage is that 400AH? AH is a somewhat nebulous term as it can be 12v, 24v, 48v etc. All the same AH but doubling the actual power available (Watt Hour) each time.
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Old 28-04-2015, 19:06   #4474
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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Hey, I understand completely. What voltage is that 400AH? AH is a somewhat nebulous term as it can be 12v, 24v, 48v etc. All the same AH but doubling the actual power available (Watt Hour) each time.
Good question - I purchased four 3.2v cells for a 12.8v nominal battery bank. I liked the simplicity of using large capacity cells vs. smaller ones.
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Old 28-04-2015, 19:15   #4475
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

The cost is enormous, any way you slice it. However the weight savings, cycles, discharge rate etc is also enormous. You get more than you pay for, for sure, assuming you have the bank account to buy them.

It's too bad someone doesn't standardize these into 12v containers and mass produce them to get the cost down.
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Old 28-04-2015, 21:33   #4476
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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The cost is enormous, any way you slice it. However the weight savings, cycles, discharge rate etc is also enormous. You get more than you pay for, for sure, assuming you have the bank account to buy them.
LifePO4 cells are not cheap for sure, but enormous - I don't think so! I guess it depends on your comparisons. Where I sail, wet moorage is $10-12/ft, yacht club dues are $150/mo., insurance and State tax bring the total to about $900 per month. IMO, $2500 is a reasonable investment in your offshore life support system. Hell, that amount won't even buy a used spinnaker! We knew BOATs (Break Out Another Thousand) were expensive - right
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Old 30-04-2015, 15:00   #4477
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

So I installed the batteries on the boat today, what do you think?
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Old 30-04-2015, 15:04   #4478
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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So I installed the batteries on the boat today, what do you think?
I think you will have a heck of a time with corrosion with them being installed on the deck like that Also, If I counted right, someone already swiped one of your cells
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Old 30-04-2015, 15:50   #4479
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

All twelve together at last:


Still to be hooked up and covered with their perspex cover sheet.
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Old 01-05-2015, 20:14   #4480
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

I am thinking of using tesla cells and coverung the lot with pourable ureathane. 22.2v nom 2 in series and using a quattro inverter it will let me drain down to 37.4v which is 3.1 per cell

This is very similar to what tesla is going to start doing. These modules are 55 lb each and 5.3 kwn.

Each modules is about 3in tall by. 11 in wide by. 26In long.

Main worry is corrosion. That is why im gonna pot it in urathane.

Eric
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Old 01-05-2015, 21:37   #4481
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Outback Marine a leading marine supplier on Gold Coast, Australia has recently installed some LI systems in 45-60 Australian built cats.

https://www.outbackmarine.com.au/sho...tery-Packs.712

Not inexpensive but properly done.
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Old 02-05-2015, 00:08   #4482
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

That's around 2x market value for the cells. Is protection so expensive done right?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:18   #4483
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Looking at the little shunting cell boards, if the BMS is the same (CM200) as installed by Highland Fling, good luck to all of them!


It seems to cost a few hundred bucks regardless of cell size to fully protect a bank properly and reliably - at least it has been that way for me. Some of that cost was in the disconnectors as I have used Tyco BDS-A units, one for the charge bus, one for the load bus. Very nice gear, but a bit costly for sure. Still, unlike with many canned "solutions", you only buy them once.
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Old 04-05-2015, 04:55   #4484
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Hi Folks,

my installation is now complete since a month and I am very pleased with the result and the performance of the batteries.

Charging is stopped by the BMS (REC) at 13,8V (measured at the cell terminals) and this works very fine. Main charging is done with solar which takes it time as I cannot provide more than 35A at full sun shine. I start charging at cell voltage around 3,2 V which corresponds roughly to around 40% SOC.

There are only two questions left which confuses me a bit:

My solar chargers can only be limited to max charging voltage 14.2 V. I cannot adjust them further down. However once they charge with 14.2 V (measured directly at the output connection of the charger) I still see a voltage below 13,8 V at the Battery terminals. I assume they take the charge to fast, that voltage immediately drops. Now the question: do I overcharge or am I safe with 13,8V cut off at the terminals despite the fact that the solar chargers provide voltage in excess of the 13,8V?

Second question: I have a Victron Battery Monitor installed which allows to adjust for Peukert values and charging efficiency. Any recommendations what I should enter there?

Many thanks for your help

Klaus
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Old 04-05-2015, 12:45   #4485

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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Eric-
Potting the Tesla packs may defeat the thermal management and cause a heat buildup, resulting in damage to the cells or a "thermal incident" aka explosion and fire. Just something to be certain of, before you do that.


Klaus-
If you see 13.8V at the battery terminals, that is all that is getting there. The nature of some charging sources, including solar, is that the output voltage drops "under load" and that means they may show 14.vV or even 17V if you just put a meter on the panel, but as soon as a heavy load (hungry batteries) is connected, that real voltage drops to 13.8 or even lower.
Believe the numbers you see at the battery posts, assuming your meter is fairly accurate. (Some may be off by 2/10ths of a volt, especially as they age. Some cheap ones are off by more than that when new.) As the batteries charge and they become less hungry, you should see the voltage at the battery terminals rise--unless your controller, etc. is doing a great job, or the wiring losses in your circuit are working out just right (sometimes wiring losses are a conveniently good thing!) or whatever.


I would think that 13.8V at the battery terminals shouldn't harm any conventional battery, lead or lithium, during normal "bulk" charging.
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