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Old 19-04-2015, 17:50   #4456
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

OOPPS! Sorry, wrong link. It's heck getting old. Too many tabs open at once. I'll try again. Different supplier also. They are using 5 cells 12.5v -16v.

Polar Power | Li-ion Battery Systems

I haven't heard anything about this company.
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Old 19-04-2015, 18:31   #4457
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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Originally Posted by darylat8750 View Post
OOPPS! Sorry, wrong link. It's heck getting old. Too many tabs open at once. I'll try again. Different supplier also. They are using 5 cells 12.5v -16v.

Polar Power | Li-ion Battery Systems

I haven't heard anything about this company.
Equally confused as they list their 1000 AH unit using 3 cells. Assuming they are using the winston WB-LYP1000-AHC cells how do you get 12.5 - 16v out of 3 cells?
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Old 19-04-2015, 19:37   #4458
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

... they say 9.6V nominal voltage for the 3x 1000Ah cells in the PDF ...

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Old 19-04-2015, 20:47   #4459
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Yep it's strange. The 24v has 8 cells as one would expect. The 9v thousand amp meets no need that I am aware of. The 400 and 700 amp that I'm interested in use 5 cells. Does anyone have any experience with this company?

I think I could use the 12.5-16v range as I've no fragile 12v equipment on my boat. I'm replacing incandescent lights with leds and my vhf radio and nav set up will work happily with 12 or 24 volts.

I'm going to need batteries by the end of this summer. I would love to step up to LiFePo but am most likely going to pinch the pennies and go for the golf cart batteries.
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Old 19-04-2015, 22:18   #4460
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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Ok jury is in. I sent an email to winston about the 400ah cells I was looking at and the answer came back as NO then cannot be run lying down. The terminals must be at the top.
I was curious to test this first hand as well and I contacted both Sinopoly and CALB about it:
  • Sinopoly: upright only or part of the plates will dry out
  • CALB: upright or on edge, but not flat
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Old 19-04-2015, 22:34   #4461
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

I can add that Hipower are terminals 45 deg from upright in any direction. They are OK to lay down for short periods.
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Old 20-04-2015, 09:27   #4462
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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Originally Posted by darylat8750 View Post
Yep it's strange. The 9v thousand amp meets no need that I am aware of.
Well you could run your smoke alarm for the next thousand odd years.....
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Old 27-04-2015, 18:35   #4463
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

WELL we now have 600Ah in, soon 800Ah and life is truly amazing, changes are minimum a wee adjust to my 2000E Solar Boost Controller AND the purchase of another one to replace my Morning Star MPPT (non adjustable) controller

I am using RC Cell Meter 7 LCD Battery Capacity Checker for LiPo Life Li ion NiMH NiCd US | eBay

to monitor cell voltages and out of balance voltages.

Today on Bat1 the cell voltage difference was .001V the other Bat2 .004V and the third one Bat3 (the most recently installed battery) .012V

I am using the EV Power BMS/BCU 12V LiFePO4 Battery Control Unit - EV Power BMS Control Units - LiFePO4 BMS

and the EV Power Cell modules CM200

and added a 200A Circuit breaker to each battery.

I have reprogrammed my Victron Energy BMV 602 energy monitor and it is now the oracle for Ah's used and replaced and has stopped telling the porky pies that it told when I had LA batteries.

I have some posts on the good thread Monitoring LiFePO4 Lithium Batteries

and pictures of my installation in my LIFEPO4 album
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Old 27-04-2015, 20:14   #4464

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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

"and added a 200A Circuit breaker to each battery."
David-
Are you aware that even a car's Group 24 SLI wet lead battery can put 3000A into a crowbar short? So that a conventional 200A circuit breaker, even on your car, would actually arc weld itself shut and then FAIL TO OPEN and a crowbar short would become a fire.

I can't help thinking that a lithium battery must be able to put more amps into a crowbar short than a car battery...which is why proper breakers with the ability to withstand huge shorts, of better yet battery fuses, are usually recommended.

Forgive me if that's old news, but when I found out why breakers were only good for "secondary" protection, I was kinda amazed too.
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Old 28-04-2015, 07:18   #4465
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Interesting with the fuses, what kind do you have in mind?

ANL?
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Old 28-04-2015, 07:34   #4466
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

The ability of a fuse or circuit breaker to open when challenged with a true short circuit is measured by its Ampere Interrupt Capacity (AIC). Here are some examples of the AIC's of well known over current protection devices (OCPD):

Class T fuses: 20,000A @ 160VDC
Marine Rated Battery Fuses (MRBF): 10,000A @ 14VDC
ANL fuses: 6,000A @ 32VDC

'C' Series Circuit Breaker: 5,000A @ 48VDC
187 Series Circuit Breaker: 5,000 @ 12VDC

Hope this helps demystify the subject.
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Old 28-04-2015, 07:46   #4467
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

I understood Hellosailors comment as fuses between the cells.

Are fuses installed between the cells or group of cells - or between the battery pack and the loads?
ANL's or Class T would only make sense if between the battery pack and the cells.
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Old 28-04-2015, 16:20   #4468
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Single,

LiFePO4 battery banks can supply a lot more than 5,000A for a short time. This is not the place for a DC circuit breaker IMO. A high current interrupting fuse such as MRBF or class T is warranted. IMO 6KA ANL fuses are not adequate for large Li banks.

I am not discussing cell-cell protection as that is a religious issue in this thread<g>.
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Old 28-04-2015, 16:25   #4469
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Edit:in my last comment I meant to say between the battery and the loads (not the cells).

TransmitterDan, roger that, out.
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Old 28-04-2015, 16:37   #4470
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highland Fling View Post
WELL we now have 600Ah in, soon 800Ah and life is truly amazing, changes are minimum a wee adjust to my 2000E Solar Boost Controller AND the purchase of another one to replace my Morning Star MPPT (non adjustable) controller

I am using RC Cell Meter 7 LCD Battery Capacity Checker for LiPo Life Li ion NiMH NiCd US | eBay

to monitor cell voltages and out of balance voltages.

Today on Bat1 the cell voltage difference was .001V the other Bat2 .004V and the third one Bat3 (the most recently installed battery) .012V

I am using the EV Power BMS/BCU 12V LiFePO4 Battery Control Unit - EV Power BMS Control Units - LiFePO4 BMS

and the EV Power Cell modules CM200

and added a 200A Circuit breaker to each battery.

I have reprogrammed my Victron Energy BMV 602 energy monitor and it is now the oracle for Ah's used and replaced and has stopped telling the porky pies that it told when I had LA batteries.

I have some posts on the good thread Monitoring LiFePO4 Lithium Batteries

and pictures of my installation in my LIFEPO4 album
What battery? I am not finding anything even close to LA prices, as in 5 or more times as much. Can you provide links to reasonable priced batteries?
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