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Old 08-03-2015, 20:36   #4366
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
huh?? So you suggest someone interested in lithium batteries read through 4,300 posts to find out about them? When you search it shows a thread. Great a thread with 4,000 posts, how helpful.
Did you read ex-calif post?? So go bitch at him, not me then if you think he should read 4,000 posts.
Huh?? You are the one bitching about this thread.
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Old 08-03-2015, 21:56   #4367
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
huh?? So you suggest someone interested in lithium batteries read through 4,300 posts to find out about them? When you search it shows a thread. Great a thread with 4,000 posts, how helpful.
Did you read ex-calif post?? So go bitch at him, not me then if you think he should read 4,000 posts.
I did.

Not only does the thread tell you what works (or is working) but it tells you what direction not to go. Lots of chafe but still a lot of grain.
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Old 09-03-2015, 01:21   #4368
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
huh?? So you suggest someone interested in lithium batteries read through 4,300 posts to find out about them? When you search it shows a thread. Great a thread with 4,000 posts, how helpful.
Did you read ex-calif post?? So go bitch at him, not me then if you think he should read 4,000 posts.
Hey - Let's you and him go fight. I love it when that happens. LOL...

I put my caveats in about this thread being the science thread (and vitally important) but I think I said it pretty clearly, "Tell me about your system and the bill of materials and how it's doing."

No debate, no knocking the other guy down for not having the perfect Rube Goldberg device.

Seems the best we get around here often is, "I have an 800 a/h system and it works great."

I get it. I am totally lazy and I should do the research myself.

But hey I heard Lithium is dead and now I am gonna go hang out with the CarbonCarbon guys. They are way cooler than these old Lithium farts.

(Oh. And I have read all 4300 posts - But it's like reading sausage making to a dog while holding a sausage in your hand. Note how strictly he is paying attention? That's not because he likes the story - all he want's is a sausage.)
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Old 10-03-2015, 04:07   #4369
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post

(Oh. And I have read all 4300 posts - But it's like reading sausage making to a dog while holding a sausage in your hand. Note how strictly he is paying attention? That's not because he likes the story - all he want's is a sausage.)

Right on , this thread is not a recipe book , showing you how to bake scones , its a discussion about the science of flour and baking.

If you want recipes, this isnt the thread.

Dave
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Old 10-03-2015, 12:23   #4370
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Well the first four cells are now at 3.65V and the Lab P/S is flicking between .01 and 00V.......only 12 more to do and the BMS's are winging their way from Ausieland.

Looked at a nice Lagoon 421 with 180AH CALB cells x 12 set up as a 3P4S 12V battery and I am almost talked into doing two 2P4S 12V batteries myself.

Also the owner Mike suggested I can dump my windlass engine on lock out relay..which means we can sail off the anchor without any need to start the Yanmar....just another benefit of LIFEPO4 batteries.....Also I was told his solar performance - (amps into the house bank) jumped by 30% when they changed from LA to LIFEPO4 just another benefit, all good news

Onward to get all the cells charged
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Old 10-03-2015, 12:55   #4371
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Enjoy getting those cells charged, took me two weeks to get all mine up . But you only have to do it once hopefully . My 600ah bank of Sinopoly"s stay within 4mv of each other , so patients pays off.

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Old 15-03-2015, 04:25   #4372
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Hello to all my cruising friends on this thread,

I have subscribed to this for years, but not read all posts, so, reading the last page I can see that I am going to put fuel on the fire....

I hope that one of you more knowledgeable than me can help me, perhaps privately if it is deemed un-opportune to post here.

After 4y of cruising with 680Ah of wet cells, two of my batteries are dying and I need to look at replacement.

I thought that 600Ah of LiFePo4 would give me more useful power and started to get some prices, however I am quite lost....

Some says I will not be able to charge properly, other says that it will be ok,
BMS is another issue, some companies (from China) do not provide them with their batteries and so on.

For charging I have:
  1. 9 Unisolar panels outputting up to 38~40Ah in good condition, the controller can be set to charge, wet, sealed, gel, NiCad or NiFe batteries.
  2. a genset driving a Dolphin battery charger that can be set similarly
  3. 2 Volvo Penta with 105Ah alternators that I cannot adjust.
So, I have no way to tell any of my charging systems to charge LiFePo4 batteries.

If any of you can help me with either a link to better info or directly commenting on my post, I would be very grateful.
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Old 15-03-2015, 05:42   #4373
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiv View Post
Hello to all my cruising friends on this thread,

I have subscribed to this for years, but not read all posts, so, reading the last page I can see that I am going to put fuel on the fire....

I hope that one of you more knowledgeable than me can help me, perhaps privately if it is deemed un-opportune to post here.

After 4y of cruising with 680Ah of wet cells, two of my batteries are dying and I need to look at replacement.

I thought that 600Ah of LiFePo4 would give me more useful power and started to get some prices, however I am quite lost....

Some says I will not be able to charge properly, other says that it will be ok,
BMS is another issue, some companies (from China) do not provide them with their batteries and so on.

For charging I have:
  1. 9 Unisolar panels outputting up to 38~40Ah in good condition, the controller can be set to charge, wet, sealed, gel, NiCad or NiFe batteries.
  2. a genset driving a Dolphin battery charger that can be set similarly
  3. 2 Volvo Penta with 105Ah alternators that I cannot adjust.
So, I have no way to tell any of my charging systems to charge LiFePo4 batteries.

If any of you can help me with either a link to better info or directly commenting on my post, I would be very grateful.
Others will likely say you should read a few of the previous pages in this thread and a lot of your questions will be answered. I'd suggest you pick and random number between 1 and 420 and start on that page and just read 10 pages. I promise you will learn about something relating to your inquiry.

Also others will point you to Maine Sails website for how to articles, especially the one one lifepo4.

Here:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects

And here:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/lifepo4_on_boats

- Ronnie...on the geaux
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Old 15-03-2015, 10:05   #4374
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiv View Post
Hello to all my cruising friends on this thread,

I have subscribed to this for years, but not read all posts, so, reading the last page I can see that I am going to put fuel on the fire....

I hope that one of you more knowledgeable than me can help me, perhaps privately if it is deemed un-opportune to post here.

After 4y of cruising with 680Ah of wet cells, two of my batteries are dying and I need to look at replacement.

I thought that 600Ah of LiFePo4 would give me more useful power and started to get some prices, however I am quite lost....

Some says I will not be able to charge properly, other says that it will be ok,
BMS is another issue, some companies (from China) do not provide them with their batteries and so on.

For charging I have:
  1. 9 Unisolar panels outputting up to 38~40Ah in good condition, the controller can be set to charge, wet, sealed, gel, NiCad or NiFe batteries.
  2. a genset driving a Dolphin battery charger that can be set similarly
  3. 2 Volvo Penta with 105Ah alternators that I cannot adjust.
So, I have no way to tell any of my charging systems to charge LiFePo4 batteries.

If any of you can help me with either a link to better info or directly commenting on my post, I would be very grateful.
Hi spiv,
I guess someday we should have a thread "how to retrofit" "lead 2 Lithium transition"....
600amps lithium is -let say- confortable... but have you in mind to go to a full electric galley w/o cranking your genset.
Just make sure your Dolphin charger car run for its max output current for several hours? Can you set it as "voltage supply'? -this is the way Iam using my Victron charger.

Also for the Volvo alternators, I'm not sure there will last a longtime running at max output. Some other folks surely have run a such set up and can elaborate.
For my side, i just keep the vovo alternator on line , only for the pulley, and added a big leece neville "heavy duty". As you have two alternators, you could change them by some 50 to 65amp "heavy duty" with the same footprint and check for the belt maw power transfert.

The main difference between Lead and Lithium, regarding the charge is that the lithium will likely draw likely all amps you can deliver until it get fully charge while
the lead bat' draw a peak of current for some time and then the current must decrease.

In conclusion, yes the lithium bat change your life on board. running a water maker with no noise is a real confort. An also running the windlass for a "sail start" w/o noise is a real pleasure. Yes I'm biased......

hope this help

rgds
gael
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Old 15-03-2015, 12:38   #4375
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

With 1000AH Lifepo4 house battery, i don't really need a dedicated Start battery. But here it is, 230AH Lifepo4.

Total weight 30 kg, replaced two AGM total of 64KG.
Double usable energy, and half the weight.

Also, it holds the voltage a little better when using the Bow Thruster.

It runs:
-Start engine.
-Start generator.
-Windlass
-Bow thruster.

Now I don't have to worry about charging two different chemistry.

Also, very happy about my 2 X Mastervolt ALPHA PRO II MB.
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Old 15-03-2015, 20:00   #4376
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiv View Post
Hello to all my cruising friends on this thread,

I have subscribed to this for years, but not read all posts, so, reading the last page I can see that I am going to put fuel on the fire....

I hope that one of you more knowledgeable than me can help me, perhaps privately if it is deemed un-opportune to post here.

After 4y of cruising with 680Ah of wet cells, two of my batteries are dying and I need to look at replacement.

I thought that 600Ah of LiFePo4 would give me more useful power and started to get some prices, however I am quite lost....

Some says I will not be able to charge properly, other says that it will be ok,
BMS is another issue, some companies (from China) do not provide them with their batteries and so on.

For charging I have:
  1. 9 Unisolar panels outputting up to 38~40Ah in good condition, the controller can be set to charge, wet, sealed, gel, NiCad or NiFe batteries.
  2. a genset driving a Dolphin battery charger that can be set similarly
  3. 2 Volvo Penta with 105Ah alternators that I cannot adjust.
So, I have no way to tell any of my charging systems to charge LiFePo4 batteries.

If any of you can help me with either a link to better info or directly commenting on my post, I would be very grateful.
Spiv,

400ah LiFE Po4 will give you more usable power than 680ah wet cells. Frank, Lagoon4us did a similar install 18mths ago detailed somewhere on CF initially just hooking up to his solar till he could sort his other charging systems. Send him a PM

here: DIY Lithium As A House Bank - 1
Not sure where he details the install?

Cheers
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Old 16-03-2015, 10:57   #4377

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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Lithium is probably a huge fast waste of money UNLESS you re-evaluate, adjust, and replace every other portion of the charging system in order to make it match the needs of the lithium batteries in every way.


If you have 1/2 of your lead batteries dying at 4 years, and the other half still good? That would beg the question, have you paid proper attention to the charging system as a system? Lithium are even easier to ruin than lead, you need to spec out every piece onboard and have an intimate knowledge of how it charges, before it is safe to hook up to lithium.
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Old 16-03-2015, 11:13   #4378
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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Lithium is probably a huge fast waste of money UNLESS you re-evaluate, adjust, and replace every other portion of the charging system in order to make it match the needs of the lithium batteries in every way.
That's just pure crazy talk...I've been running my 400AH LiFePO4 bank without replacing "every other portion of my charging system".
Why in the world would you make comments like that that are totally BS? To scare people off....are you a Trojan T105 salesman...hahaha...

But seriously if your current charging devices have an adjustable voltage output setting then you are DONE...plug and play baby!

The problem is for every good technical point this thread is providing the reader has to sort through some BS.
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Old 16-03-2015, 12:11   #4379

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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Let's see if you get the 10,000 80-90% depth discharge cycles that manufacturers are talking about, before you can assume that you either a0Got Lucky or b) the charging equipment doesn't really matter at all.


Some OEM alternators will be putting out 13.8 volts, others will be putting out 14.4. Anyone who believes that randomly accepting either voltage and randomly charging lithium batteries with it is "good enough", is either lucky or has thrown out money.


All the makers and all the data point toward the overall life--and therefore economy--of a lithium battery as being highly dependent on the voltage range they are cycled through. You can change 2000 cycles to 10,000, or vice versa, by optimizing the voltage. Or so they all seem to be saying.


Have you gotten 5000 truly deep cycles yet? No? Then you don't really know how "right" your system is yet, do you?
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Old 16-03-2015, 12:33   #4380
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

And so you see the game of the internet experts who's opinions are more important than the facts at hand or topic being discussed. It was clearly stated that the charging device needed to have a voltage setpoint...as most quality cruising devices do anyway...but let's ignore that and change out the entire charging system anyway? Set up a straw man and argument of varrying apt voltage and then light it on fire...ha ha. Proper charge voltages has been discussed and clearly understood and wasn't even an issue of debate...classic change the topic debate games...not practial reality of people that are using the technology.

New technology has never been for the naysayers or internet chat room experts who feel compelled to post as an expert on a system they don't even have on their boat...but alas...there were those that once thought the world was flat, the sun revolved around the earth, and LiFePO4 batteries were any more complicated to install and use on a boat than a ships main engine.
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