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Old 29-07-2014, 10:59   #3826
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Thanks ..will read up on that. I don't think we need to bother too much about turning on and off the inverter charger, it's more the solar panels that will be putting in 120Amps an hour during the day...so we need just a way to send a signal from the Victron that will open the relay connected to the charge bar...
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Old 29-07-2014, 12:41   #3827

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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

markv- Ther could come a day when you, or someone you are paying by the hour, says "Gee, I wish there were some damned LABELS on the CABLES!" or at least, numbering that corresponded to a schematic.


Just saying, while the memories of the job are fresh at hand, this might be a good time to do that.


One you are sure that everything is working correctly, it can also pay to put some liquid plastic (Liquid Lectric Tape, tool dip, etc.) on the screws on the busbars. Painting over the connectors that way keeps out corrosion and ensures they cannot loosen up, either. If it is done well, over a clean solid connection, there's no downside to it.


For that matter, you might also want to install some type of guards or shields over the busbars, i.e. strips of 1/4" (6mm?) acrylic prevent anything from accidentally contacting them. Which includes stray tools or fittings tossed there if you are rolled one day.
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Old 29-07-2014, 13:01   #3828
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Certainly I will add labels.., but we might still have to move cables around tomorrow....the liquid plastic is a good idea tho, thanks..

As for the acrylic, this is under my bed...so there will be a wooden top that goes straight over the top of that lot and there will be nothing falling in there. And rolling?...this is a cruising cat, I hope we never, ever roll...

Been reading up on Victron, as well as emailing them - they responded pretty quickly with "there are two ways to program , the virtual switch on the multi/quatro (ve bus) and with the ve net battery controller."
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Old 29-07-2014, 13:19   #3829

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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

I hope to never be in (much less on) a boat while it is being rolled. Still, even a cat can also pitchpole.

Wheee! More, more, do that again! (No thanks.(G)
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Old 29-07-2014, 15:07   #3830
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Quote:
Originally Posted by markv View Post
Certainly I will add labels.., but we might still have to move cables around tomorrow....the liquid plastic is a good idea tho, thanks..

As for the acrylic, this is under my bed...so there will be a wooden top that goes straight over the top of that lot and there will be nothing falling in there. And rolling?...this is a cruising cat, I hope we never, ever roll...

Been reading up on Victron, as well as emailing them - they responded pretty quickly with "there are two ways to program , the virtual switch on the multi/quatro (ve bus) and with the ve net battery controller."
Yes, the guys at Victron are really great and always seem to get back to me very quickly!

I have added the Color Control GX as a display and a couple of the BVM 702s to the system which is working nicely.

The Color Control GX is a "work in progress" as they add programming to it to deal with all of the corner cases.

I would definitely look at hardware choices which are compatible or planned to be compatible as this is a really sweet piece of gear!
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Old 29-07-2014, 17:16   #3831
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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Originally Posted by markv View Post

Been reading up on Victron, as well as emailing them - they responded pretty quickly with "there are two ways to program , the virtual switch on the multi/quatro (ve bus) and with the ve net battery controller."
Get the USB 2 ve-bus for programming, they are discontinuing all ve-net gear. The newer gear like the Color Control GX does not even have ve-net ports. The software for the usb interface is pretty strait forward. Depending on the Quattro you have it will have 3 or 4 dry contacts that can be used for BMS hi and low cutoff and still have one left for auto generator start. You might not have enough for battery temperature, but the LiFePo profile does not use it anyways.
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Old 30-07-2014, 11:01   #3832
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Finally finished the setup today. Installed the batteries, which we discovered were fully charged already. Call Peter at Calb when I needed a couple of questions answered, and he had sent diagrams through beforehand to help. Followed Rolfs ideas and suggestions and now it is all running...the washing machine is running off the LiFo, no problems..all is sweet for now...next step is to get the solar array fabricated and the solar panels mounted and connected to the Flex Max boxes...

Now it's all in and I worked my way through it, it was actually much simpler than I thought...the space for the batteries was the perfect size for 16 x 400Ah Calb batteries, the Ligoo BMS supplied was already wired up. connected 5 wires to the battery terminals, 3 temperature wires on 3 of the same connections and 5 wires from the equalizer to the same connections, following peters directions. The relays sit between the battery master switch and the charge and load buses, and the little Ligoo monitor supplied gives me SOC, battery discharge, LVC and HVC and more info.

I have included some photos...not yet labelled for connections...
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Old 30-07-2014, 21:38   #3833
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Well, I certainly hope this was not a Professionally paid install.

It looks like Alligator Soup, with so many fault potentials. It's a fire trap...period

This is a project that may work in the beginning, it will become a certain liability either for you, but most likely any follow on ownership.

Lloyd

Quote:
Originally Posted by markv View Post
Finally finished the setup today. Installed the batteries, which we discovered were fully charged already. Call Peter at Calb when I needed a couple of questions answered, and he had sent diagrams through beforehand to help. Followed Rolfs ideas and suggestions and now it is all running...the washing machine is running off the LiFo, no problems..all is sweet for now...next step is to get the solar array fabricated and the solar panels mounted and connected to the Flex Max boxes...

Now it's all in and I worked my way through it, it was actually much simpler than I thought...the space for the batteries was the perfect size for 16 x 400Ah Calb batteries, the Ligoo BMS supplied was already wired up. connected 5 wires to the battery terminals, 3 temperature wires on 3 of the same connections and 5 wires from the equalizer to the same connections, following peters directions. The relays sit between the battery master switch and the charge and load buses, and the little Ligoo monitor supplied gives me SOC, battery discharge, LVC and HVC and more info.

I have included some photos...not yet labelled for connections...
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Old 31-07-2014, 02:24   #3834
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Well..a couple of electricians from Robin Marine did the work on it, so yes, I have paid for the work to be done. Can you explain exactly what is wrong with the setup?.. Once the top is placed on it, nothing can fall in, and it's in a dry spot of the boat under a bed where the electrics normally are. Compared to what it was like at the start, it's a much better layout - Lagoon factory installs are completely confusing, nothing labelled and everything attached to the switch studs. But I would welcome some constructive criticism so I can tell them - I am not an electrician so I wouldn't know...

There is not much room to play with in that space, and no more length on the the cables coming in from the rest of the boat so we cannot move them around too much, without laying new cables. There is no other place to put busbars so we had no choice there. So limited options really.
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Old 31-07-2014, 09:47   #3835
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

First off, it appears that the bats are not banded. The web strap and buckle hold down is a bad choice. The web strap does not capture every battery. I especially don't like the use of solid link bars between the bats in this case. To much movement will be impartred at the post, both side load and up and down. Which is a critical connection, both for the health and safety of the bank. In all cases I prefer the braided link connectors.

Next I don't like the raw copper bus bars, as they will be high maintenance to abate corrosion issues. The rats nest of spaghetti laying on, and above the bats is a fire hazard, not to mention that it will make servicing the bank difficult. The web strap laying across the links and post, are a sure fire hazard.

The load, and charge cables are floating and unsecured. The BMS wiring should have been properly cut to length, and led from the battery so as not to be in contact with any of the links, and post.

At the very least, you should band the bats, build proper hold downs that capture each bat, cut and terminate to proper length the BMS cables, secure all the floating cable to the bus bars. Make sure that nothing laying on the bats is in contact with the links and posts.

I most certainly replace all of the raw copper bus bars, with tinned buses.

Lloyd





Quote:
Originally Posted by markv View Post
Well..a couple of electricians from Robin Marine did the work on it, so yes, I have paid for the work to be done. Can you explain exactly what is wrong with the setup?.. Once the top is placed on it, nothing can fall in, and it's in a dry spot of the boat under a bed where the electrics normally are. Compared to what it was like at the start, it's a much better layout - Lagoon factory installs are completely confusing, nothing labelled and everything attached to the switch studs. But I would welcome some constructive criticism so I can tell them - I am not an electrician so I wouldn't know...

There is not much room to play with in that space, and no more length on the the cables coming in from the rest of the boat so we cannot move them around too much, without laying new cables. There is no other place to put busbars so we had no choice there. So limited options really.
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Old 31-07-2014, 12:15   #3836
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

How about these for battery connectors ?

I think they will do the job better then what Sinopoly sent me . What do you think?

EVTV Motor Verks Store: Braided Battery Strap Kit - 60 mm centers, Battery Connections, braided60mmkit

Regards
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Old 31-07-2014, 12:49   #3837
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

My preference exactly, well almost. You can order multi-links, so that you don't have to stack.

Lloyd

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How about these for battery connectors ?

I think they will do the job better then what Sinopoly sent me . What do you think?

EVTV Motor Verks Store: Braided Battery Strap Kit - 60 mm centers, Battery Connections, braided60mmkit

Regards
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Old 31-07-2014, 12:52   #3838
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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My preference exactly, well almost. You can order multi-links, so that you don't have to stack.

Lloyd
Hmm multi links that would work just fine with 8 cells making a 12v bank .

Regards
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Old 31-07-2014, 12:56   #3839
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

I also forgot to note the use of industrial lugs, as opposed to Marine lugs. The hole at the end of the industrial lug allows for corrosion to wick into the cable ends and lug.

This alone defeats the use of shrink tube main purpose. So now the only value added by the shrink tube is strain relief.

Lloyd

Quote:
Originally Posted by markv View Post
Well..a couple of electricians from Robin Marine did the work on it, so yes, I have paid for the work to be done. Can you explain exactly what is wrong with the setup?.. Once the top is placed on it, nothing can fall in, and it's in a dry spot of the boat under a bed where the electrics normally are. Compared to what it was like at the start, it's a much better layout - Lagoon factory installs are completely confusing, nothing labelled and everything attached to the switch studs. But I would welcome some constructive criticism so I can tell them - I am not an electrician so I wouldn't know...

There is not much room to play with in that space, and no more length on the the cables coming in from the rest of the boat so we cannot move them around too much, without laying new cables. There is no other place to put busbars so we had no choice there. So limited options really.
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Old 31-07-2014, 13:02   #3840
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
I also forgot to note the use of industrial lugs, as opposed to Marine lugs. The hole at the end of the industrial lug allows for corrosion to wick into the cable ends and lug.

This alone defeats the use of shrink tube main purpose. So now the only value added by the shrink tube is strain relief.

Lloyd
Yep got those, Magna lugs , no flare on them either,

Regards
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