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Old 17-12-2013, 16:22   #3331
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Guys,
Balquon is not the only game in town. Carl at electricarparts in Utah has CALB cells, which I would have preferred if my closeout Winston's were not so inexpensive. CALB are the cells companies like Geunasun prefer to use in their Li battery builds due to consistency & quality.
On the 400 Ah cells that is $440 vs $499. The $440 cells would ship for free and it appears
that Electriccarparts only accepts Paypal. I have serious issues with Paypal on any amount other than 'insignificant'.
It looks like I will continue to run with LA for a while until the stars align for a situation I feel happy with. Thank goodness that my LA's are still in good shape and I am not in a rush.
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Old 17-12-2013, 16:30   #3332
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

tI
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Maine Sail addressed this in one of his videos. 750mA @ 15 volts = 11.25 watts.




I've heard that our cell's self discharge rate is <2% per month, or 364 watts in a month on the 700 a-hr 26 volt bank mentioned above. A wall cube of 0.5 watt output would match self discharge. A 24 volt wall cube (30 volts) would only be 15mA output.
Thanks for the video. I was aware of the ability to cook batteries and that's why I posed the question.

Yesterday I ordered one of these from ebay:

DC DC LM2596 Step Down Adjustable Converter Power Supply Module Output 1 3V 35V | eBay

I figured I'd adjust the voltage from a 35 volt 1 amp wall wart to get an average of zero current to the fully charged bank.
The wall wart would be connected to a grid only outlet, so when the power fails, it wouldn't be chasing its tail from the inverter output.

If all that was involved was just LED night lights, I'd have them on a wall wart by themselves, but it also involves the MPPT controller for the solar array and a photocell controlled device.
Therefore, the load varies somewhat so I figured a constant voltage source would be best.
At any rate with the LED loads, the most current the cells would see would be around 0.7 A.

Balqon said they use 26.8 volts float with 27.4 absorb.
That's 3.35 volts/ cell
What do you all think? i
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Old 17-12-2013, 16:36   #3333
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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I attempted to place an order for 4 200Ah cells and 4 400Ah cells, to be held until the complete order could be shipped, with a provision it should ship before March 16 (the 200 Ah cells are expected in Feb and the 400 Ah cells are expected in Jan) with a 10% deposit. Alas, no go. Samra suggested they could contact me when the cells are in stock. I am loosing out on the free shipping and I do not know if the 400 and 200 cells will ever be in stock at the same time.
In case anybody wonders why I insisted on complete order shipping when freight is free - the free part is only to my freight forwarder in Blaine,WA and I pay to bring the order up into Canada which could end up pretty expensive if the stuff arrives in multi shipments.
I know you already addressed an issue with this company Lithium Prismatic Batteries only accepting PayPal and I feel the same way about PayPal. If they won't take the major credit cards they won't have my business either. Their sale prices are quite good though, $260 for a 300 a-hr cell.
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Old 17-12-2013, 16:56   #3334
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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I know you already addressed an issue with this company Lithium Prismatic Batteries only accepting PayPal and I feel the same way about PayPal. If they won't take the major credit cards they won't have my business either. Their sale prices are quite good though, $260 for a 300 a-hr cell.
Agreed, the sale prices are good ... and who knows, maybe in the future they might accept VISA.

Edit:
I was mistaken - I just did a trial checkout and they do in fact accept credit cards ..... sorry!
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Old 17-12-2013, 17:09   #3335
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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On the 400 Ah cells that is $440 vs $499. The $440 cells would ship for free and it appears
that Electriccarparts only accepts Paypal. I have serious issues with Paypal on any amount other than 'insignificant'.
It looks like I will continue to run with LA for a while until the stars align for a situation I feel happy with. Thank goodness that my LA's are still in good shape and I am not in a rush.

My entire business runs on PayPal. In well over 6000 transactions I have not had a single issue and only two people who refused to order via PayPay.

I can call them on the phone, talk to a real human being, and not sit on hold, and as a result of PayPal's tremendous customer service I dropped my CC processing. LOTS of businesses are moving to this model and you still have protection when you buy from a PayPal merchant via a CC.. My customers can pay by CC if they wish and PayPal just processes it.

FWIW, having bought cells through Balquon, I would buy from 10 companies that only accepted PayPal vs. dealing with their flaky BS again. Did I get my cells? Yes, but it was a painful process and very, very, very unprofessional overall. I felt like I was buying electronics off the bag of a white van in a dark parking lot.

I recently shipped something common carrier of a heavier weight and dimension and realized they BONED me on shipping.... Perhaps they just did not shop it around, but again this goes back to how hokey their whole operation is.

The CALB cells from EVcarpparts ship from CA and the HiPower cells ship from MA... Personally I do feel the CALB cells are a better quality too. Not that Winstons are bad but companies like Genasun who have researched & tested this to death choose only CALB....

I just got a quote last week for shipping four 400Ah CALB CA series cells to Maine and the shipping quote was $120.00. Balquon charged me $250.00 from the same state....

I simply do not have the confidence in Balqon to order from them again, good price or not.
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Old 18-12-2013, 09:43   #3336
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

My issue with PayPal is that with a free email account they want a bank account number that they can take funds out of. I give no one but my bank one of those numbers....
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Old 18-12-2013, 10:09   #3337
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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My issue with PayPal is that with a free email account they want a bank account number that they can take funds out of. I give no one but my bank one of those numbers....
To buy from most PayPal vendors you can use your credit card and not ever open a PayPal account.

Just select "Pay with a debit or credit card, or Bill Me Later" instead of "Pay with my PayPal account". Ask a particular vendor if they have that feature enabled, I would think most do. Approx 45% of my sales are via credit or debit cards via my PayPal..
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Old 18-12-2013, 10:11   #3338
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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My issue with PayPal is that with a free email account they want a bank account number that they can take funds out of. I give no one but my bank one of those numbers....
Years ago I bought something on PayPal and found out a year later it was a "subscription", sucking a second identical payment out of my bank account. Not surprisingly the scammer issued no refund---and when I filed a claim with PP, all the scammer had to do was whisper the magical word "intangible" and PP rolled over like a dog and sided with him! Lots of items on eBay are actually categorized as "services" to facilitate this simple scam.

So nowadays, that bank account has been long closed, and PP only has my CC number. If not for that added protection, I never would have ordered from Balqon.
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Old 18-12-2013, 10:17   #3339
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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My issue with PayPal is that with a free email account they want a bank account number that they can take funds out of. I give no one but my bank one of those numbers....
You give those numbers out every time you write a check.
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Old 18-12-2013, 10:27   #3340
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

This is the charger I'm using set at 14.6 volts and works quite well for a $209 charger. KP-C(1200W) Charger [KP-C(1200W)] - $209.00 : EV Assemble, LiFePO4, Electric Bike Conversion Kit, EV Charger, BMS, EV Components, EV Parts, All for EV!
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Old 18-12-2013, 10:28   #3341
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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You give those numbers out every time you write a check.
Yes but they wanted authorized access to that account so if we had a disagreement they could withdraw funds without my approval. This after I had bought several things using PayPal with my old email provider. I have heard where some folks open a savings account with $5 and give that to PP but I'm getting too cranky in my old age to play games like that.......
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Old 18-12-2013, 11:16   #3342
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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Yes but they wanted authorized access to that account so if we had a disagreement they could withdraw funds without my approval. This after I had bought several things using PayPal with my old email provider. I have heard where some folks open a savings account with $5 and give that to PP but I'm getting too cranky in my old age to play games like that.......
Your bank will do the same. If you engage in a transaction that violates the terms of agreement (or law), the bank will take the money from your account without your permission.

PayPal offers services banks don't.

I'm sure the larger banks are still singing 32 doh's over the creation of PP.

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Old 18-12-2013, 11:39   #3343
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

First post, following for a while.

I like the water, but, I like to sit next to it in my RV and I am researching the LFPs for my house batteries and this thread is goto source!

Just compared the BalQon 160AH Vs. ElectricCarParts 195AH
(ElectricCarParts listed in a previous post)


Balqon EC parts
AHs Bq 160 EC 195
USD Bq $170 List EC $185 On sale
Pounds Bq 13 EC 13
d Bq 8.2 EC 7.2
w Bq 2.5 EC 2.8
h Bq 11 EC 10.7
Inch^3 Bq 225.5 EC 215.712

AH/# Bq 12.31 EC 15.00
AH/in^3 Bq 0.71 EC 0.90
AH/$ Bq 0.94 EC 1.05
$/AH Bq $1.06 EC $0.95

Does anyone else see to similarity? Weight is same, Volume +/- .05%

Are the prices coming down, or, are the specs going up for the same battery?

Sorry about the formatting. Look at the PDF for better formatting!

H.
(an RV'er)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf LFP compare.pdf (3.5 KB, 35 views)
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Old 18-12-2013, 14:36   #3344

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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

jd, Balqon are, ah, a unique place?

From reading their web site and some of their terms and offers, I can tell you that either they have no concept of US state and federal trade laws, or they choose to ignore them. I'm not sure which is worse but either gives me an uneasy feeling, that I'm dealing with "two guys in the basement after school" at best. The products might be great, the eventual terms and wins might be great, but if I ordered from them, I would do it my way--not theirs--and take advantage of the consumer laws that give me guarantees that Balqon doesn't. Like, being able to impose the credit card company's chargeback terms. Balqon can go bankrupt, in which case the card company (which means every cardmember) takes the hit, and I still get reimbursed by the card company, under the terms I have with them.

Case in point, under state and federal laws, a warranty has to be declared as express or implied, and terms have to be available and stated. If you look at Balqon's web site, they just say "five year warranty" and that legally counts as a five year FULL warranty, with no limits or exclusions, because that's what is printed and said. But if you call them to ask? No, they offer a five year pro-rata limited warranty, which is a very different thing.

Businessmen who don't know any of the rules of the game are fine, working off the back of the truck. I once bought a really great bridge that way, it's over in Brooklyn.

They could be great folks who are just new to the learning curve, but I don't want to climb that on my dollar. The entertainment's better in Vegas.
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Old 18-12-2013, 14:50   #3345

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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

"That's huge, as shipping heavy Li cells is pretty expensive to begin with, particularly with the hefty hazmat surcharge."
There's an incredible amount of confusion over HazMat and I think some vendors inflict that on the customer in order to gouge them. Many battery types, especially those that do not use liquid acid electrolyte, do not have to ship as HazMat! The exact terms are carved in stone by the USCode, yes, but then every carrier adds their own terms on top of that. Sometimes the charge is simply $75 "per order" and sometimes, as with AGM batteries, there is no HazMat fee as long as they ship by ground. Which can be a very practical way to ship lead anything, as long as you have to ship it.
I did that dance a number of times last year, with various goods and carriers including the USPS, FedEx, and UPS. And every one of them gave me at least two conflicting opinions, from their regular staff, their hazmat offices, and their publications. Last week I was looking to buy a simple marine fire extinguisher (bicarbonate instead of ammonium powder, because the residue is non-corrosive) and one very large and well-known office supply company wanted to charge me a $75+ hazmat fee on one $20 extinguisher. But Amazon will ship the same product as plain UPS ground, no hazmat fee required. Same "no problem" from other vendors, although I wound up picking it up cheaply locally. Sometimes, the vendors....
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