LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

[senormechanico]

No bias eh?

Hobby people "poking around" is not a cheap shot?

I think you have seen a sufficient number of posts from some very knowledgeable people here to make that statement offensive so more than a few readers of this thread.

Lead is DEAD.

[I.Grind]

While I'm sure DYI will make the most economic sense now and in the near future. Plug and play is starting to hit the market. Despite their wild DOD and cycle life claims, I would think http://www.lithionicsbattery.com/test_site/index.html these Guys would satisfy even Hello Sailor. I have no idea what they cost, doubt they are cheap, but they claim to be maintenance free. They were also touting a new BMS in Electric and Hybrid Marine that cuts only supply on HVC and only demand on LVC, and diverts solar/ wind charging loads to a hot water heater. Not on their website, only in the trade mag, probably still in development. Seems worth watching.

No connection blah blah blah.

[CarstenWL]

Lagoon4us said:

Charging is via three methods:-
1) per the standard Volvo alternator with the Lead Acid in that circuit NO PROBLEMS.
2) Dolphin 80Amp battery charger on a setting to suit, this charger was installed in the boat in 2007.
3) 750Watts of solar with a Lithium controller giving 35amps on moderate days.

Frank, what do you mean with 1) {... with the Lead Acid in that circuit...} ?

I will replace my house bank with 400Ah Winston cells soon.

Thinking to keep my normal lead motor starter battery. Should I add a second alternator for the Winston cells and let the standard alternator just charge the starter battery?

Thanks,

Carsten

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by CarstenWL

Lagoon4us said:


Frank, what do you mean with 1) {... with the Lead Acid in that circuit...} ?

I will replace my house bank with 400Ah Winston cells soon.

Thinking to keep my normal lead motor starter battery. Should I add a second alternator for the Winston cells and let the standard alternator just charge the starter battery?

Thanks,

Carsten

I left the standard alternator to charge the standard lead acids but if i'm motoring for a while i switch a solonoid that takes charge from the alternator/acid combo and gives the lithium a hit whilst the alternators regulator is sensing the charge of the lead acids, works very well and won't 'over zap' the lithium cells, think of the LA's as a buffer, BUT i do monitor the monitor and am always aware of amps required to top up as against whats going in.

I see no need for high output alternators as they flog the drive i.e. pulley/bearings etc and are more expense that seems unnecessary.
Cheers

[FlyingCloud1937]

Thanks for the link to the Lithonics site. It seems they are the fore front leaders. Now when the market matures and others develop systems, we will start to see more competitive prices.

Check out this article I found after finding Lithonics. OCTOBER 2013 ARTICLE
Marine Hybrid Magazine

Some good Stuff going on.

Lloyd

[FlyingCloud1937]

And for your viewing?reading Pleasure.


Online magazine
Electric & Hybrid Marine Technology International

Lloyd

[diugo]

A couple of pages back, there was some remarkable unanimity claiming "our batteries don't sag". Aren't you all exaggerating a bit?

I ask, because I have never experienced such a phenomenon with my four LiFePO4 260Ah "Balqon Specials". From day one over ten months ago, I have consistently observed a 0.2-0.4V sag from the set in series under a 100A (C/3) load, suggesting an average internal resistance of 0.5-1.0mΩ per cell---in good agreement with figures published by Winston.

Granted, dropping from 13.2 to 12.8V is a vast improvement over dropping from 12.7 to 11.9V with my old 305Ah lead acid AGM pair---but to boldly assert that LFPs have no sag at all, is a bit dubious.

[ColdEH]

Originally Posted by typhoon

All my cells are spot on but I only have a volt meter that goes to two decimal points . All eight 3.29 v . They came in a Sinopoly crate wiith instructions. LoL so I take it they are brand new cells .

Regards

Two months, and there are still spot on , no drift in voltage after sitting quietly in the corner waiting to be installed

Regards

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by diugo

A couple of pages back, there was some remarkable unanimity claiming "our batteries don't sag". Aren't you all exaggerating a bit?

I ask, because I have never experienced such a phenomenon with my four LiFePO4 260Ah "Balqon Specials". From day one over ten months ago, I have consistently observed a 0.2-0.4V sag from the set in series under a 100A (C/3) load, suggesting an average internal resistance of 0.5-1.0mΩ per cell---in good agreement with figures published by Winston.

Granted, dropping from 13.2 to 12.8V is a vast improvement over dropping from 12.7 to 11.9V with my old 305Ah lead acid AGM pair---but to boldly assert that LFPs have no sag at all, is a bit dubious.

Sure anything will sag eventually. Keep in mind the average loads on most cruising sailboats are sub 20A. Ours averages is about 8A... During the glow plug cycle the batts are still above 13.2V and enough to toast the glow plugs......

Sag is all relative to the loads. 100A loads on sailboats are usually very short in duration....

[diugo]

Right, I think the glowplug issue is really more due to the fact that an LFP bank is generally a half volt or more higher than the lead acid voltage range the plugs were originally designed for---not sag, per se.

One other issue I have noticed with my LFPs is that my 12V LED panels run hotter. I believe some of the older panels were originally engineered to run off a 12.0VDC power supply, but could tolerate 12.6V; 13.2V is really pushing them. Thankfully, no LED has yet failed---but the extra heat has caused the double sided sticky tape to let loose on several occasions. The simple fix here was, use better sticky tape.

[SV Sea Monkey]

Whew! Just spent a few weeks reading through the entire thread, following links, re-reading, scratching my head, and finally deciding that I wish I hadn't just bought a 12V 630Ah AGM bank a few months ago. Oh well, live and learn. I'll need new batteries again sometime--and when I do, maybe they'll be LiFePO4. Until then, I'll be following this thread closely so I can learn from the experts here and (maybe) feel comfortable taking the plunge. It sounds like nobody here has regretted doing so. Thanks to all for documenting a tremendous wealth of knowledge here.

[deckofficer]

Well SV Sea Monkey you got me thinking, is there anyone who regrets making the switch to LiFePO4? So what better way to find out but a good 'ol poll.

Vote here http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...o4-115331.html

[Opie91]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Well SV Sea Monkey you got me thinking, is there anyone who regrets making the switch to LiFePO4? So what better way to find out but a good 'ol poll.

Vote here http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...o4-115331.html

Good idea, its hard to argue against 100% in love with LiFePO4!!!

[Joe Parklane]

Sorry, neither of the poll answers are appropriate assessments in my CALB LFPo4s 750amp house bank. There is no short answer as requested by the poll.
How about, "with all you know now would you do this all over again"? My answer is based purely on cost...and the answer is no. However, given I have redundant systems in place to prevent any HVC or LVC event, all alternators are protected by smart regulation that throttles them back vice frame temps, frustrating hours and hours programming my Victron multiplus's with new assistants(software controlling relays) including countless emails and conference calls to Holland with tech to include Vader himself and I installed a multi grove belt to prevent slippage is in place all the above at great expense well beyond multiple LA bank change outs. All this because I know some of which I don't know. I know I am not a DIY'r, but paid for this and some of the RD to do it. LAs I could have done even with my limited knowledge. These are not for novices. I cruise in dread that something will happen and only a very few electricians understand these...so the yellow pages fix is not an option.

[OceanPlanet]

Originally Posted by Opie91

Maine Sail or anyone else doing this for a living,

Have you started to install these in boats other than your own?

Have been for years. Probably more than 100,000 ocean miles (racing and cruising) on LiFePO4 installs I have been personally involved with or sold to installers.