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Old 03-03-2013, 10:45   #2206
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

There's something going on when here in Europe it's becoming very hard to buy cells.

They are advertised as normal but are 'nil stock' when you try to purchase.

200 Amp cells are still available and that's about it, just try googling and see how you go.

I got an Aussie here who deals in solar panels in a big way to see if he could use his influence to gain supply, he was told delivery dates were totally unpredictable up to 3 months!

Another issue may be that individual cells may not become available moving to batteries forming a bank like GENASUN etc....

USA might have stocks in the warehouse for now?

I know of two other purchasers that have not been able to get supply, let's hope it's a temporary problem.

Cheers Bob and mcarling
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:47   #2207
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

When i was in Australia at Xmas a large volume solar power installer mentioned there was a new technology about to be announced.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:15   #2208
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Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
The production capacity in China is many times larger than the production rate, so demand would not be the reason. I suspect we may be about to see a new generation with slightly improved performance.
According to one article I read, overall Chinese prismatic LiFePO4 production rates were only 6% of total capacity in 2011. That's got to hurt...

CALB already did their new generation introduction last year, see:

http://blog.evtv.me/2012/07/calb-ca1...-lifepo4-cell/

There are other entries on that blog about these cells, but mostly it looks like they offer higher charge/discharge rates. Rumored, but unproven cycle life enhancement.

I speculate the supply issues are probably a reluctance for distributors to carry inventory. Especially in sizes that don't move fast, and the bigger cells are probably relatively slow movers.
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Old 03-03-2013, 12:37   #2209
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Lloyd,

I am confused. On 1/17/2013 you said this:



I took that to mean you've not yet stepped into Li designs and installations but maybe I misinterpreted it. Are you saying that in the last month +/- you've now installed 2 Li systems?

It would be great if you could share with us your Li installs and how you executed them. That is what this thread is about, sharing what we know.......
It's very simple. Both systems are for emergency standby communications. Their only job is to sit in wait they stay at about 60% SOC.

They are not roll your own, but were very expensive mil-spec from a Seattle Company, that is now out of business. Both have been installed for about 3 years.

1. A private Yacht in SE Asia that the owner leaves untended for a month or 2 at a time. It's job is to come on line when the Victron Net sends it's sat phone messages to the owner when away.

2. A Yacht Charter that spends it season in Alaska. This boat has 5 separate bat banks that I installed. It's only job is the com back up bank.

I have people requesting info all the time. But few are capable of actually owning and managing a proper set up bank. I won't roll my own for a customer, bc it's not worth the risk.

I am hoping that we will eventually see a real market player to stand behind their product. It seems Gensun is there, Victron is starting to roll out, but I put in an RFP, and they're not ready to deliver.

So for me it's still a waiting game. There was not one vendor at this years Seattle Boat Show ready to close a deal on LI bats this year.

Lloyd
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Old 03-03-2013, 12:46   #2210
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Mastervolt.
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Old 03-03-2013, 13:12   #2211
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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Mastervolt.
Mastervolt distributor here in Seattle has 0 inventory, same for the Victron distributor.

That says a lot about the market.

Lloyd
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Old 03-03-2013, 13:53   #2212
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

This is where I'll probably get my undies scorched, but here goes. The cells we are using are very robust, and 4 cells in series gives close to the same voltage as 6 cells in series of lead acid. We have the advantage of protecting our investment by monitoring each cell's voltage and doing a balance when/if needed. On a LA 12 volt battery, one cell starting to go south ends the life of the battery and we toss it.

As to BMS, I can understand its usage in the less stable, higher energy density of the 3.7 volt lithium Ion cells in all the consumer applications they are used in, laptops, and cell phones for both liability and mass market use by folks that just want to recharge when needed. In our use, we use the stable LiFePO4 cells, employ cell loggers to insure all of our cell voltages are staying balanced, and no cell going too low on discharge or too high on charge.

Case closed. If you want a house bank that gives the best bang for the buck, is clean, light weight, doesn't sag under heavy inverter loads, and will have 5 times the cycles, these are your cells. No hoops to jump through to use, other than taxing your alternators because of their charge acceptance.

Just monitor cell voltages and be done with it.
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Old 03-03-2013, 13:56   #2213
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

http://www.sinopolybattery.com/Clien...2271823132.pdf

Hong Kong, 27 February 2013

VOLUNTARY ANNOUNCEMENT

BANKRUPTCY ORDE
R AGAINST WINSTON CHUNG

Sinopoly Battery Limited (the “
Company
”) was made aware that in
the Bankruptcy Proceedings
No. 4005 of 2012 of the High Court of The Hong
Kong Special Administrative Region, the Court
of First Instance in a judgment dated 27 Februa
ry 2013 made an order for bankruptcy against Mr.
Winston Chung (formerly known as Chung Hing Ka
) who is currently
involved in legal
proceedings with the Company and/or its subsidiaries.
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Old 03-03-2013, 14:06   #2214
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Aw come on. Everyone is aware of the bad blood and mud slinging between Sinopoly and Winston. Sinopoly has been the nastiest in this war, I wouldn't believe anything they state in a press release against Winston.
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Old 03-03-2013, 14:17   #2215
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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Aw come on. Everyone is aware of the bad blood and mud slinging between Sinopoly and Winston. Sinopoly has been the nastiest in this war, I wouldn't believe anything they state in a press release against Winston.
Well since they provide court case numbers, then it is fully available to anyone to verify.

The bigger issue is/are they Winston really in Bankruptcy?

Lloyd
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Old 03-03-2013, 14:47   #2216
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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Well since they provide court case numbers, then it is fully available to anyone to verify.

The bigger issue is/are they Winston really in Bankruptcy?

Lloyd
It' seems it is true

Judgement Cases

Summary:
1. There are the following applications before this court:
(1) An amended bankruptcy petition (“the petition”) presented by 4 judgment creditors (“the petitioners”)against Mr Winston Chung (“the debtor”); (2) The petitioners’ summons for stay of HCA 1290/2012 pending determination of the petition in HCB 4005/2012; (3) The debtor’s notices of appeal against a garnishee order nisi and an order for examination granted by masters in HCA1283/2011; (4) The debtor’s application for stay of execution of Chung J’s judgment dated 24 April 2012 in HCA1283/2011concerning the subject judgment debts.

FINDINGS
95. I find that there is no bona fide dispute to the judgment debt on substantial grounds. Nor was the petition issued for the purpose of extortion of the debtor or otherwise an abuse of process. The opposition by the debtor is but another desperate attempt to wriggle out of his liability over the judgment debt.

WHAT ORDER SHOULD BE MADE?
96. A successful petitioning creditor is entitled to a bankruptcy order. However, Ms Tam, SC asks for an adjournment pending the resolution of the Fresh Action or the IVA application.

103. I am most grateful to counsel for their thorough preparation and assistance to the court.
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Old 03-03-2013, 14:52   #2217
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Plug in the case number and year here Legal Reference System

and you will find "no results". Like I said this war has been going on for a couple of years and Sinopoly has been slinging mud better than any US politician. If you can link me to a China court website that shows what Sinopoly's press release alleges I would concede this point, but like I said, anything put out by Sinopoly about Winston is suspect.

When I plug "No. 4005 of 2012 of the High Court of The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region" into a search engine, all I get is results generated by Sinopoly and results from The High Court of Hong Kong. When I go to the Court website and search for the above, again "no results".
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Old 03-03-2013, 15:01   #2218
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

What is astro learning and why is a student ID required to gain access?
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Old 03-03-2013, 15:14   #2219
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

It must be true, I saw it on the internet:

Balqon now has a 96% probability of bankruptcy in the next two years, according to Balqon Probability Of Bankruptcy BLQN.OB OTC BB
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Old 03-03-2013, 15:43   #2220
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Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

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It must be true, I saw it on the internet:

Balqon now has a 96% probability of bankruptcy in the next two years, according to Balqon Probability Of Bankruptcy BLQN.OB OTC BB
Doug,

That is disturbing to hear. They make a product that our ports really need, electric yard tractors for moving containers. Problem with the trucks is they last much longer than their ICE counterparts, so low replacement sales. I wonder why the EV industry is still using thousands of the small cylinder cells instead of the LiFePO4 larger cells. Most of the new electric cars are running around 360 VDC so 112 of the 40 a-hr cells is only 370 lbs at 14.5 KW-hr, so it isn't a size issue because 112 of the 160 a-hr cells would be great for an EV.

I guess I won't see that $280 store credit on my next purchase. For all the delays on my order they gave me $280 back via Paypal, and in my attempt to transfer to my bank account I screwed up and sent it back to Balqon. I would think a company on the verge of bankruptcy wouldn't be so generous in keeping a customer happy. I never asked for it, but after their clearance sale and all the purchases from CF members they thought I deserved a clearance price on the 2 1/2 year old cells they sold me.
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