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Old 27-09-2010, 20:54   #16
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I just read an interesting article about LED Nav lights. One point was made, that any "home made" type nav lights could possible cause a sticky point to insurance companies in the event of an accident.
Another consideration for us Kiwi's trying to obtain Cat1, the rules mention only the use of a 25W bulb for vessels over 12m. I wonder how hard and fast they are to that rule.
The consideration of ""XXAgency - Approved" lights can be a problem if you have insurance on the boat and are involved in an incident that is related to use of the light. If you are uninsured then meeting the "XXAgency" regulations is your main personal consideration.
- - As GordMay stated: Conventional (USCG Approved) Nav’ Lights have generally required a 20 Watt Incandescent Lamp to achieve a visibility of 5 nm (required for vessels over 12m).
It’s expensive to test (& gain “approval”) - so most LED type Nav’ Lights have not been tested - even though they may meet the “standards”.

There are LED light assemblies that have been "approved" and would meet the insurance and "XXAgency" requirements. It is when you D-I-Y your lights - or - use a non OEM replacement bulb (assembly) that you enter that "grey" area where you might be putting your insurance coverage at risk, et. al.
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Old 27-09-2010, 23:16   #17
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Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
The consideration of ""XXAgency - Approved" lights can be a problem if you have insurance on the boat and are involved in an incident that is related to use of the light. If you are uninsured then meeting the "XXAgency" regulations is your main personal consideration.
- - As GordMay stated: Conventional (USCG Approved) Nav’ Lights have generally required a 20 Watt Incandescent Lamp to achieve a visibility of 5 nm (required for vessels over 12m).
It’s expensive to test (& gain “approval”) - so most LED type Nav’ Lights have not been tested - even though they may meet the “standards”.

There are LED light assemblies that have been "approved" and would meet the insurance and "XXAgency" requirements. It is when you D-I-Y your lights - or - use a non OEM replacement bulb (assembly) that you enter that "grey" area where you might be putting your insurance coverage at risk, et. al.
We have looked into this carefully and it seems that one candlepower is sufficient unless local laws say otherwise. It took a great many years to get international agreement about what a standard candle was - but I digress. That one candlepower was literally light from a candle in a glass lantern and the rule goes back hundreds of years to the days of the old square riggers. Note that these were sailing ships without engines. For powered vessels the pesky 25 watt and 5 watt rules apply in some jurisdictions. Watts do not properly equate to lumens however as different bulbs and the optics of different designs of lanterns will affect the brightness. NASA Marines Supernova range looks very promising and as its CE Approved, insurance quibbling (bad faith insurance) hardly seems possible especially as the light is visible for over two miles . Incidentally some ships travel at speed at night without lights. I did hear about a yachtsman spotting an unlit vessel with his AIS. As it was travelling at 25 knots unlit he decided to call them. It turned out that they were the military on exercise and they were not very happy about being spotted.
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Old 28-09-2010, 06:05   #18
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. . . As it was travelling at 25 knots unlit he decided to call them. It turned out that they were the military on exercise and they were not very happy about being spotted.
And I do not think that the military has to worry about insurance coverage on their warships.
- - If you have a significant amount of some bank's money invested in your vessel, then messing with any D-I-Y made "required equipment" by the various governmental marine entities - is rather risky to your personal finances as to your own vessel. Add in the potential jeopardy from additional lawsuits from the "other party" and the possible loss of your insurance company's need to defend/indemnify you and you can see that saving pennies or maybe even a hundred dollars or so by using non-approved required equipment might not be financially prudent in the long run.
- - Of course if you are uninsured then ignore the above.
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Old 28-09-2010, 06:17   #19
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I have used the Orca Green tri-color with day/night sensor for a little over 3 years with no problems.

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Old 28-09-2010, 07:03   #20
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Insurance and lighting

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And I do not think that the military has to worry about insurance coverage on their warships.
- - If you have a significant amount of some bank's money invested in your vessel, then messing with any D-I-Y made "required equipment" by the various governmental marine entities - is rather risky to your personal finances as to your own vessel. Add in the potential jeopardy from additional lawsuits from the "other party" and the possible loss of your insurance company's need to defend/indemnify you and you can see that saving pennies or maybe even a hundred dollars or so by using non-approved required equipment might not be financially prudent in the long run.
- - Of course if you are uninsured then ignore the above.
As to insurance, in Europe most marinas will not allow uninsured vessels to enter. Worthwhile insurance can be very difficult to obtain however as most companies add "riders" to the policy. Typically they want the boat hauled out during winter when storms are likely. Another problem is that often geographic limits on the insurance are imposed. Insurance that ceases when halfway across the Bay of Biscay for example - surely the Somali pirates haven't got that far yet! Fortunately "Captain Bligh" used to work for the RNLI and he has got life membership. This makes a tremendous difference as worldwide insurance cover is no problem and its quite reasonably priced. Incidentally most accidents happen in daylight as drunks don't usually drive jetskis at night.
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Old 28-09-2010, 07:10   #21
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As to insurance, in Europe most marinas will not allow uninsured vessels to enter. Worthwhile insurance can be very difficult to obtain however as most companies add "riders" to the policy. Typically they want the boat hauled out during winter when storms are likely. Another problem is that often geographic limits on the insurance are imposed. Insurance that ceases when halfway across the Bay of Biscay for example - surely the Somali pirates haven't got that far yet! Fortunately "Captain Bligh" used to work for the RNLI and he has got life membership. This makes a tremendous difference as worldwide insurance cover is no problem and its quite reasonably priced. Incidentally most accidents happen in daylight as drunks don't usually drive jetskis at night.
I don't have this problem with my insurance, provided by a UK insurance company. The riders about territory can be expanded or removed for a small increase in premium. Mine is currently set for Gibraltar to Kiel, and can be expanded in stages to worldwide for less than 10% increase in premium.
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Old 28-09-2010, 08:05   #22
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LED lighting, soundproof, Sailor's Solutions Inc. The best led interior light I've found in ten years of looking... And it's dimmable...
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Old 28-09-2010, 08:39   #23
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Insurance Problems

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I don't have this problem with my insurance, provided by a UK insurance company. The riders about territory can be expanded or removed for a small increase in premium. Mine is currently set for Gibraltar to Kiel, and can be expanded in stages to worldwide for less than 10% increase in premium.
That is very good, possibly the insurers (name begins with P) didn't like Jims boat (Ives Four-21 built in 1977) The first few days with that boat were very troublesome as on the first day after leaving Poole, old sludgy diesel got stirred in a chop and the engine failed off Weymouth. The old fuel had to be discarded. A day or so later the foredeck lifted during a beam-reach across Brixham Bay. So much for the sellers survey "all chainplates secure". The survey was not worth the paper it was written on. It was only the Samson post that held things together. The boat was fixed in Brixham with the aid of a clever yacht rigger. They sailed it under a concrete dock, fitted a prop between deck and dock and let the rising tide force the deck back down onto wet resin whilst they drove in some screws. Secret stem-head roller fixing tangs are not a good idea! All fixed now with a stainless steel strap that joins the topside to the hull. Unfortunately after Lisbon there was an engine fire - jellyfish clogging up the water intake whilst the skipper was having a nap. Curiously in the shakedown year in colder British waters this had never been a problem. Life is never simple but the boat has now reached the Canary Isles.
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Old 28-09-2010, 09:52   #24
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I have used the Orca Green tri-color with day/night sensor for a little over 3 years with no problems.

Barry
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Good to know.

That is what I have.

Nice it turns itself off too as I can't seem to remember till after my second cup of coffee!
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Old 28-09-2010, 11:08   #25
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I did hear about a yachtsman spotting an unlit vessel with his AIS. As it was travelling at 25 knots unlit he decided to call them. It turned out that they were the military on exercise and they were not very happy about being spotted.
That's gotta be urban legend? The few navy boats I see have ais turned off. Hardly stealth is it.
As for the topic, I don't regret spending the money on a lopo light. For most of the past 4 years it's been a windvane, tricolour, anchor and anchor light which have been playing a very large part in the well being of the boat so I don't mind spending a bit on those items.
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Old 28-09-2010, 11:11   #26
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Unfortunately wind turbines are unacceptable as he was injured by one many years ago and he won't have anything to do with them.

not to hijack the thread but I would love to hear this story...

As with most marine gear there is quality stuff and junk. A lot depends on your sailing habits too. I have had good luck sticking the DR LED bulb conversions in an Aquasignal stack but I have also heard folks complain about their life span. The two best masthead LED's I have seen were the Lopolight and the Orca Green Marine. Both pretty expensive but if they outlast the cheaper versions and keep you out of the rigging then maybe its worth it. On the other hand you can always save the amps by simply not turning the thing on in the first place and taking your chances...
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Old 28-09-2010, 11:13   #27
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LED lighting, soundproof, Sailor's Solutions Inc. The best led interior light I've found in ten years of looking... And it's dimmable...

I bought these as well. Anyone else have trouble with RF interference on FM radio?
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Old 28-09-2010, 14:36   #28
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I bought these as well. Anyone else have trouble with RF interference on FM radio?
I have been using these since 2006 and have no RF interference problems.

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Old 28-09-2010, 15:24   #29
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When I have my FM stereo on and then turn on one of the sensibulbs I get interference. Turn off the sensibulb no interference. I do not get this from the other Alpenglow compact flourescents.
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Old 28-09-2010, 16:01   #30
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Unhappy Interference from Compact Fluorescent Lamps

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When I have my FM stereo on and then turn on one of the sensibulbs I get interference. Turn off the sensibulb no interference. I do not get this from the other Alpenglow compact flourescents.
Ho Ho Ho! Some of these CFL bulbs have built in filtering and some don't. Caveat Emptor! I noticed that some of these bulbs interfered with shortwave and FM reception so I was not impressed in the slightest with these "Merkle" bulbs. (Angela Merkle banned the 100 watt filament bulb from Europe and she wants everybody to use the low energy CFL type) It is IMHO a fairly pointless paper exercise really as the "waste heat" from filament bulbs helps to heat ones house) Anyhow help is at hand as a ferrite tubular choke fitted to the downlead works wonders. Sometimes the chokes can be got for free from scrap computer monitors etc. At home I fit these chokes as close to the bulbholder as I can and they do make a difference. Snap together split chokes are also OK and these avoid having to mess with the wires. Whenever electrical energy is switched, harmonics are generated and it is the harmonics that cause interference. Wind generators can also cause interference from the switching of the diodes and sparking of the brushes. In this case a 0.1uF
capacitor is advised.
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