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Old 31-12-2006, 08:57   #16
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"Snake oil"

Other than distilled water and sulpheric acid all battery additives are "snake oil". Save your money and realize that these products appeal to your sense of false hope in trying to keep from "paying the price" of good maintanence or the purchase price of a new battery.

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Old 31-12-2006, 09:28   #17
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Thanks Gord and Rick, thought it was too good to be true. Hope you're not going to tell me the STP I put in my 66 Mustang was a waste of money.

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Old 31-12-2006, 13:14   #18
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Sorry Rick - anyone who buys “mouse milk” (a flavour of “snake oil”) gets an automatic “A” in Professor P.T. Barnum’s introductory class, titled, “There’s a sucker born every minute.”
The fact is aftermarket lube additives, such as STP & others, are totally useless, and in many cases actually detrimental to your engine.

Beginning about a decade ago, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) mounted a long-term attack on false, misleading and unsubstantiated performance claims made by manufacturers of “Mouse Milk”, or Aftermarket Lube Additives (ALAs),

In 2000, Dura Lube settled and paid a 2 million dollar fine, and Motor Up settled, after agreeing not to make claims it could it could not scientifically support, and not to misrepresent tests, studies or data on its product’s performance.
In 1999, Prolong (Motor Up) settled without a fine, also agreeing not to make unsupported claims.
Earlier, in 1995, First Brands paid a $888,000 fine settle what the FTC said were misleading claims for STP Oil Treatment (for “Scientifically Treated Petroleum”).

Each of these companies continues to market “Mouse Milk” ALAs.

As far as I know, EVERY engine manufacturer discourages or prohibits the use of aftermarket additives.

For those:
- looking for simple solutions to complex problems
- - who prefer bumper-sticker slogans to boring facts
- and etc.
Let me introduce & offer:
Gord’s “Whiffle Dust”
Introductory Offer for CF Members Only $19.99 each.
“Whiffle Dust“ Makes you feel good about everything – As good as heroin, but cheaper.
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"

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Old 31-12-2006, 13:57   #19
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Originally Posted by GordMay
For those:
- looking for simple solutions to complex problems
- - who prefer bumper-sticker slogans to boring facts
- and etc.
Let me introduce & offer:
Gord’s “Whiffle Dust”
Introductory Offer for CF Members Only $19.99 each.
“Whiffle Dust“ Makes you feel good about everything – As good as heroin, but cheaper.
After watching football today I will take some if you promise it really, really works.
Sing to a sailor's courage, Sing while the elbows bend,
A ruby port your harbor, Raise three sheets to the wind.
......................-=Krynnish drinking song=-
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Old 31-12-2006, 14:10   #20
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Pulsers - Snake Oil?

For the better part of 2006 I've been deeply involved with two colleagues in an experimental testing program of desulfating devices. The Nanopulser is one of 10 such devices we're testing. We have had three Nanopulser units and a number of others for testing.

Our original goal in undertaking the test was to determine: "Do these things actually work, or is this all snakeoil?"

After many months of testing, it's still too early to answer this question with confidence. We have used a number of both sophisticated and elementary tests, some pretty expensive test equipment, and about half of the available devices.

A couple of things we CAN say:

(1) Rick, you can put aside your fears about RFI. We're practicing hams, and have tested the devices for RFI on the HF marine and amateur bands. Our testing shows this is NOT a problem.

(2) The measure of what "works" and what doesn't work is an EXTRAORDINARLY COMPLEX task, given the many variables to try to account for. We're still poring over the data collected thus far, and trying to puzzle out what it really means.

While we asked a simple question, we've found that obtaining the answer in any meaningful way is not simple at all.

There is a whole CULT of pulsator affectionados which has grown up around the idea that electronic pulsing can be used to desulfate lead-acid batteries. There are many, many devices on the market. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence, some "scientific" evidence from university tests, and a lot of people who'd really like these things to do what they claim to do.

One manufacturer has recently introduced a guarantee: if you use one of their products with new batteries, they GUARANTEE that your batteries will not sulfate. Unconditionally. This is pretty strong stuff, but as yet unverified by wide experience.

With regard to the Nanopulser (Japanese manufacture....most others are Chinese or U.S.), what we've seen so far is a marked early improvement in the measured CA of 10-year old gel cell golf-cart size batteries, and very little further improvement for months thereafter. We've also seen no improvement with T-105s which had been abused. However, we "shocked" these puppies recently with a big equalization cycle, and noted some improvement. So, we're about to repeat the cycle a few times, then try the Nanopulsers on them to see if any further improvement occurs.

In short, there is no easy answer. This is VERY complicated stuff, given the many variables involved. Consider, for example, that each pusating device we looked at using a HP digital oscilliscope had a different pulse profile. They were often VERY different in terms of frequency, amplitude, amperage, pulse width, pulse duration, etc. They can't ALL be right, can they???

One device even claims to be microprocessor controlled, and to actually tailor its pulsing characteristics to the lead sulfate crystals (PbSO4) resonant frequency, ensuring that they are effectively broken up and returned to solution. I had a long telephone conversation with the designer/producer of this device, but we don't have one available for testing and they're selling for over $100. The manufacturer claims to be off to bigger and better things, however, like nanocoating of everything that moves, and ultra-efficient solar panels which will do away with fossil fuels. Real soon, now :-)

Bottom line: some or all of these devices might have some beneficial effect, given the right circumstances, but we've yet to be able to collect data which provides conclusive proof of this. On the other hand, we're not (yet) prepared to write them off as snakeoil, and one of our test group has already decided to use them on his boat.

More later, when we have something useful to say....


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Old 31-12-2006, 23:27   #21
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I thought of importing such devices from Europe and be the exclusive distributor to the US.

Talked to the owner or this firm : pulse_technology

but nothing came out of it.

The claims sounded good and knowing that sailboaters are always in need for cheaper and better power I sniffed at it, but the guy would not give me a free sample to test on my bank before I put my name on the product.

After all is said and done, it seems that a conservative battery managment strategy will yield better results than snake oil or fancy pulse stuff.
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Old 01-01-2007, 01:55   #22
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I was wondering during all this discussion of equalization if one could not just hook up 1, 50 watt solar panel to the battery bank unregulated? Hence, higher voltage, lower amps.
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
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Old 01-01-2007, 13:25   #23
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PV panels as an equalization source

Yes, a properly sized unregulated pv panel may be used to equalize a battery. Mostly alternative energy applications lend themselves to such a solution whereas a two-battery bank system is designed to provide long life energy.

The two-bank battery system works when the two banks are alternated. The fully charged bank is switched into the load and the discharged bank is then FULLY charged and left to stand for 24 hours and then either equalized using a dedicated pv panel for such a purpose, if needed, or then swithced into the load and the cycle is repeated.

Two bank battery systems do not, in general, make sense in small cruising boats because the second bank must be the same capacity, size and weight as a single bank system and, therefore, not practical AND few small cruising boats have the ability to completely recharge the alternating bank before allowing a 24 hour recover standing time.

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battery, equalization

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