Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-01-2014, 22:43   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Lake Superior
Boat: Hunter Legend 37
Posts: 126
Re: Is a Propane Generator Feasible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
But going from a diesel cat genset to a propane cat genset of about 1.2 MkW size, (think it was a V12, but its been a while)
I assume you mean 1.2 MW, or 1,200 kW?

If it's a Cat diesel 1.2 MW 480 or 600V standby genset, the prime mover is a 3512E rated at 2,000 hp @ 1,800 rpm. But if it's a 13.8 kV prime power diesel genset at the same rating it uses a 3516B rated at 2,900 hp @ 900 rpm. The gaseous fuel lean burn Cats are the G-series, a 3612 is used on a 1.2 MW set.

I own two 1.25 MW 13.8 kV Cat sets. We use them for power in the rock quarry to run crushers, conveyors and sorters. Each one burns 2,550 gallons of diesel fuel per day turning big rocks into gravel.
__________________

__________________
CruisingCouple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2014, 08:49   #47
Moderator
 
sailorchic34's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Islander 34
Posts: 4,812
Re: Is a Propane Generator Feasible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CruisingCouple View Post
I assume you mean 1.2 MW, or 1,200 kW?

If it's a Cat diesel 1.2 MW 480 or 600V standby genset, the prime mover is a 3512E rated at 2,000 hp @ 1,800 rpm. But if it's a 13.8 kV prime power diesel genset at the same rating it uses a 3516B rated at 2,900 hp @ 900 rpm. The gaseous fuel lean burn Cats are the G-series, a 3612 is used on a 1.2 MW set.

I own two 1.25 MW 13.8 kV Cat sets. We use them for power in the rock quarry to run crushers, conveyors and sorters. Each one burns 2,550 gallons of diesel fuel per day turning big rocks into gravel.
Darn blonde moments.... Yes 1,200 Kw, generally 480V. Though one set of seven 1.5 MW were 4160V, I think, as that was the Chiller voltage. The last 1,200 kW I did the mechanical for was propane for the sprint pop site. The seven 1.5 MW's was for a single building in Vegas, They were diesel of course. Fun stuff.

Its been oh 12-15 years since I looked at the cat specifications. Impressive engines.
__________________

__________________
sailorchic34 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2014, 09:01   #48
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Lake Superior
Boat: Hunter Legend 37
Posts: 126
Re: Is a Propane Generator Feasible?

Although I hold a BME (UofM, 1982) I have been in the heavy construction and mining business all my life. In our business rumor has it that the universe may have been created by a divine power. But when it came to actually building it in six days the job was outsourced to the only entity able to get it done on time - Caterpillar.
__________________
CruisingCouple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2014, 10:01   #49
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Lake Superior
Boat: Hunter Legend 37
Posts: 126
Re: Is a Propane Generator Feasible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jongleur View Post
Does anybody cruise with a propane generator aboard?

What is the output? Would you recommend one?
Getting back to the topic at hand, I certainly would not recommend using a propane genset on a boat. The thermal efficiency does not match diesel power, no matter how much you raise the compression ratio. And there is always a safety issue with gaseous fuels. They all try to tell you it's "perfectly safe" until you get an explosion like this one:
Rogers Apartment Residents Return Home After Gas Tank Explosion | KSTP TV - Minneapolis and St. Paul

The entire gas industry, both LPG and NG, know that gaseous fuels are one of the most dangerous fossil fuels known to man and they spend billions on ad campaigns telling the general public it's "perfectly safe". But if you really want to see how "perfectly safe" it is there's a website that tracks the explosions that kill people and level entire neighborhoods every single week. It's a lot more common than people realize because the realities of it are buried in politics and the billions of dollars at stake in the gas industry.

If you think it is an isolated thing, a simple google search shows how common it really is:
https://www.google.com/search?q=lp+gas+explosions

There is no other fuel that boils at room temperature and has the ability to mix with air at a wide range of air/fuel ratios that when ignited create such total devastation.

To each his own. But I will not have propane cylinders on my boat.
__________________
CruisingCouple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2014, 11:43   #50
Moderator
 
HappyMdRSailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Mississippi
Boat: 48 Wauquiez Pilot Saloon-C22 Chrysler Sunpiper- 19 Potter-Preparing to cruise w/my girl
Posts: 5,980
Re: Is a Propane Generator Feasible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
Darn blonde moments.... Yes 1,200 Kw
I only misplaced my decimal point 1/10th.....
__________________
In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair...

Mai Tai's fix everything...
HappyMdRSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2014, 12:14   #51
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,032
Re: Is a Propane Generator Feasible?

IF I end up with a little Honda as a back-up, it will likely be propane powered, but the propane will never come inside the hull. If always left on the outside the danger is almost non-existant.
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2014, 13:02   #52
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Lake Superior
Boat: Hunter Legend 37
Posts: 126
Re: Is a Propane Generator Feasible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
IF I end up with a little Honda as a back-up, it will likely be propane powered
Well, I'll say my piece and then be quiet.

Honda does not build a propane fueled generator, which means it will have an aftermarket LPG conversion kit on it. Neither the generator nor the conversion kit are designed for a marine environment. The EU2000 et al have a floating neutral which means you have no ground fault protection for your onboard power and it will probably throw an error on your isolator monitor if the boat is otherwise wired correctly. And further, it cannot be bonded because it is an inverter type generator and you will fry the inverter if you bond it.

While it is not illegal to use portable generators for shipboard power, the USCG highly frowns upon the practice. I would suggest buying and fitting a real marine generator.
__________________
CruisingCouple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2014, 13:07   #53
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 4,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
IF I end up with a little Honda as a back-up, it will likely be propane powered, but the propane will never come inside the hull. If always left on the outside the danger is almost non-existant.
If by "outside the hull" you mean hanging well over the side of the boat then you are correct. But the cockpit or deck is not "outside". Propane must be stored in such a way that leaking propane will fall outside the entire boat. Propane is heavier than air and it will flow down through the slightest opening and pool at the lowest spot waiting for an ignition source.
__________________
transmitterdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2014, 21:24   #54
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Usually South Florida these days
Posts: 825
Re: Is a Propane Generator Feasible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CruisingCouple View Post
There is no other fuel that boils at room temperature and has the ability to mix with air at a wide range of air/fuel ratios that when ignited create such total devastation.
Would natural gas & butane not give similar results? Perhaps acetylene too?
__________________
pbiJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2014, 21:27   #55
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Usually South Florida these days
Posts: 825
Re: Is a Propane Generator Feasible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CruisingCouple View Post
Although I hold a BME (UofM, 1982) I have been in the heavy construction and mining business all my life. In our business rumor has it that the universe may have been created by a divine power. But when it came to actually building it in six days the job was outsourced to the only entity able to get it done on time - Caterpillar.
The only other industry-servicing company in the US that I find matches their performance is McMaster-Carr. They are spectacular.
__________________
pbiJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2014, 17:15   #56
Moderator
 
sailorchic34's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Islander 34
Posts: 4,812
Re: Is a Propane Generator Feasible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbiJim View Post
Would natural gas & butane not give similar results? Perhaps acetylene too?
Natural gas has half the BTU's per CF of gas as propane. Butane for all intents is the same as propane, except the vapor pressure is roughly 1/5 of propane. I expect Acetylene to be a bit too pricey.

So natural gas would require twice the cfm. Plus piping would be larger due to the higher flow rate. Storage would be less too.
__________________
sailorchic34 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2014, 17:46   #57
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,032
Re: Is a Propane Generator Feasible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
If by "outside the hull" you mean hanging well over the side of the boat then you are correct. But the cockpit or deck is not "outside". Propane must be stored in such a way that leaking propane will fall outside the entire boat. Propane is heavier than air and it will flow down through the slightest opening and pool at the lowest spot waiting for an ignition source.

Point taken. My intent is to have the little Honda as a back-up, not to be used unless something breaks and then use it. My intent is to use the propane already on the boat, and stored in a propane locker. Propane largely as I believe I could store the Honda for six months or more and it would work without having to do maintenance on it, Gasoline powered I'd expect to have to clean the carb.
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2014, 17:49   #58
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,032
Re: Is a Propane Generator Feasible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CruisingCouple View Post
Well, I'll say my piece and then be quiet.

Honda does not build a propane fueled generator, which means it will have an aftermarket LPG conversion kit on it. Neither the generator nor the conversion kit are designed for a marine environment. The EU2000 et al have a floating neutral which means you have no ground fault protection for your onboard power and it will probably throw an error on your isolator monitor if the boat is otherwise wired correctly. And further, it cannot be bonded because it is an inverter type generator and you will fry the inverter if you bond it.

While it is not illegal to use portable generators for shipboard power, the USCG highly frowns upon the practice. I would suggest buying and fitting a real marine generator.

I intend to, probably the Next Gen one made in Jax. Honda will be the back-up, they are inexpensive enough that I think they are worthwhile
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2014, 19:16   #59
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Lake Superior
Boat: Hunter Legend 37
Posts: 126
Re: Is a Propane Generator Feasible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
I expect Acetylene to be a bit too pricey
Acetylene is not even a remote possibility. In free state at 15 psi a shock or jar will set it off. At 29.4 psi it becomes self-explosive and your best course of action is to run and put as much distance between you and the source as possible.

It is dissolved in acetone in tanks. This is some photos of a van that had a oxyacetylene torch inside it and the tanks were stored on their side in the van. There was a leak in a valve, allowing the acetone in the tank to leak off and leaving free state acetylene in the tank.

Just blowing the soft metal safety plug out of the bottom of the tank caused this damage.






__________________
CruisingCouple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2014, 20:03   #60
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Boat: TBA
Posts: 295
Re: Is a Propane Generator Feasible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
If the choice is between propane or gasoline, I think propane is slightly safer, to have on a boat. than gasoline. Both can be dangerous and require similar precautions and storage. My logic goes, propane containers are stronger than typical gas cans, propane doesn't need to be poured from one container to another, and spilled propane will dissipate to a safe level faster than gasoline.
Sorry but i would disagree on some of these points Gasoline does not need to be decanted at sea using the same logic as propane you simply have spare outboard tanks that clip into line same as propane (i know that many use jugs/jerry cans but some just have spare outboard tanks, some do not have this option for remote tanks on their motors but many do and most that don't can have the motor adapted for an external tank)

If i spill or have a leak with gasoline i can both see and smell the fuel, not so with propane.

i do agree however that both are dangerous

Much harder to find storage spots for propane on a boat as well
__________________

__________________
aclmck is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
generator, propane

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:48.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.