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Old 10-01-2019, 17:55   #16
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Re: Inverter for bluewater sailboat?

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Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
That is going to require a lot of DC amperage to bake bread in a an AC oven. How are you going to put that many amps back into the battery bank?

NO! NO! I will use my bread maker. Why would you use an oven?

In a 2½ hour cycle to make a loaf of bread the bread-maker would mix the loaf (with a paddle wheel) for about an ½ hour, then sit while the dough rises for about one hour and finally bake for an hour.

Here are loads of typical kitchen appliances.
https://www.rpc.com.au/information/f...ppliances.html
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Old 10-01-2019, 18:19   #17
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Re: Inverter for bluewater sailboat?

I'm another Victron Multi Inverter/Charger fan. It's on all the time.

But you're right to question. When I had a Sabre 30ft, I didn't have an inverter. Above 45ft you find lots of uses for an inverter and have the storage space for it. For your 37ft boat, it's a coin flip.

A few other things I like about an inverter/charger

It's one fewer set of breakers to get right. Shore power feeds through the inverter. You always have 110v AC.

Victron correctly implements a ground relay that makes sure the inverter is correctly grounded whether you are on shore power, genset, or inverter. An important safety item.

The "separate units are more reliable than one" argument is simply not true in my experience. I think this comes from years ago when this stuff was much less reliable. Inverters and chargers have mostly the same parts. An inverter/charger will fail as often as a charger or an inverter. Not twice as often. My Victron has been on except when the boat was hauled for five years with no problems.

And the common parts is why a Victron Inverter/Charger is much less than buying a Victron charger and inverter separately.

A good strategy if you have the space of a bigger boat is to have a backup charger. If you want to charge quickly, you can run both of them at the same time until your batteries reach absorption voltage at which point one will stop charging. And you have redundancy.

Or, for even more redundancy what I did was to buy two Victron Multis. One is wired as an inverter/charger. The other just as a charger (two inverters on the same circuit would have a phase problem). If the one wired as an inverter/charger failed, it would take me about 15 minutes to rewire and use the other as an inverter/charger.
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Old 10-01-2019, 18:52   #18
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Re: Inverter for bluewater sailboat?

Couple of things in favor of inverters. Simple and convienent for all the small chargers i.e. chargers for portable lanterns, torches. battery drill, computer, phone etc. These days there are lots of different voltages, in my case from 3v to 19v. more efficient and simple to run a small inverter than convert all to 12v. Even if it is not super efficient the power used is very low so losses are minimal.
Second is the quality of dock supply power. Can be very dodgy. I run a battery charger connected to the battery then all A/C comes from an inverter. This effectively isolates the boat from shore power and guaranties a clean reliable supply onboard, much smoother than most gensets.
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Old 10-01-2019, 19:41   #19
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Re: Inverter for bluewater sailboat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
That is going to require a lot of DC amperage to bake bread in a an AC oven. How are you going to put that many amps back into the battery bank?
A bread maker doesn't require all that many watts hours, perhaps 1000, which translates to about 100 amp hours thru a reasonably efficient inverter. Not bad for having fresh bread.

Scott
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Old 10-01-2019, 20:49   #20
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Re: Inverter for bluewater sailboat?

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Originally Posted by CharmCityBoater View Post
I am interested in the opinion of others on this forum. I am in the process of re-wiring my 1985 Tayana 37 sailboat. I plan to cruise the east coast of the US and down into the Caribbean, maybe more in the future.

I am in the process of identifying the battery charger I will be installing and keep getting feedback from others I should be purchasing a battery charger / inverter combo. This is an important decision as a charger / inverter combo would be wired differently. The battery charger would simply hang off the AC panel as one of the various loads, however, the inverter / charger combo would be wired inline with the main 30A AC coming into the boat prior to going to the main panel (Victron energy Multi).

For the life of me I cannot see why I would need an inverter.

1. They are so inefficient
2. Everything I can think I would need can run on 12V
3. Creates a more complicated piece of hardware and adds to potential things that can go wrong (inverter / charger vs. simple charger)
4. If I REALLY need AC power while on the hook I can just start my Honda generator and plug it into my 30A shore power inlet.
5. Alternatively, I could carry a portable 1200W inverter and just run it off the batter if I really had to. (Even less efficient, I know)

I am curious of the views of others. Why did you choose to have an inverter? After installing one do you really use it that often, and for what purpose? Am I crazy to not install an inverter / charger combo? Am I missing something here? Does it make solar / wind charging easier? simplify wiring?

Thanks ahead of time for the feedback.

Phil
I only use 12V EVEN when at the dock.
My boat is USA wired but is always in the Med at 240V.
I added another power inlet (240V) when I arrived in Europe. This 240V inlet goes only to my existing 110/240V charger.
I use domestic gas bottles of the country I am in for cooking. ( have a bag of adaptors)
Refrigeration is 12V.
I have 12V cigarette lighter sockets all over to charge the laptops (purchased 12V cables separately) and pones IPads etc are charged by USB in the 12V sockets as well.
Also have solar to charge the batteries and two alternators on the engine. Battery bank is 800Ah.
I have a small 12V socket Sine Wave inverter for the First Mate’s personal grooming gear.
I am a believer in the KISS principle.
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Old 10-01-2019, 21:44   #21
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Re: Inverter for bluewater sailboat?

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Originally Posted by sainted View Post
A bread maker doesn't require all that many watts hours, perhaps 1000, which translates to about 100 amp hours thru a reasonably efficient inverter. Not bad for having fresh bread.

Scott

Probably nearer half that?
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Old 10-01-2019, 22:17   #22
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Re: Inverter for bluewater sailboat?

When you do the math, the inverter basically comes free with the charger :-)
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Old 11-01-2019, 04:40   #23
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Re: Inverter for bluewater sailboat?

Surely an inverter for the galley, a fridge/freezer and decent HWS are just basic requirements on a reasonable sized yacht?
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Old 11-01-2019, 06:17   #24
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Re: Inverter for bluewater sailboat?

I have a Heart 1500W inverter/charger on a small boat. I like the seamless switch over from shore to inverter power, the power sharing function (say you run a portable gas generator, 700W, and you start up a large load, the inverter will take the difference from the batteries instead of killing the genny) and the integration.

Specific AC appliances include vacuum, high quality TV, PlayStation, dremel, microwave, dehumidifier.

I think you need one.
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Old 11-01-2019, 07:06   #25
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Re: Inverter for bluewater sailboat?

We put a Magnum 48V input 4kW inverter/charger on our bluewater sailboat. Just the 60 amp charger portion of it alone was worth the cost.

I use a K-cup coffee maker. Very little power used per cup and no mess to clean up, which saves water usage and time.
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Old 11-01-2019, 07:11   #26
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Re: Inverter for bluewater sailboat?

Inverters are like almost all boat gear. If you have one and use it then it's worth having, if you don't have one you will say it isn't worth having.

I say the same thing about things like radar and AIS. Never of which I personally would spend money on over having an inverter, but that's me.
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Old 11-01-2019, 07:25   #27
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Re: Inverter for bluewater sailboat?

I have a Magnum MS2812. I don't believe I would have selected that if I was buying new, but it's been good so far (with the fancy remote I bought for it). If/when it fails I intend to replace it with an appropriately sized Victron. But I would definitely do a combination unit rather than two separate devices, and I would seriously consider one that has easy monitoring.

Every boat and its owner are a unique use case. My wife and I use a LOT of 115v devices. Many of them actually operate on DC, but a DC to DC converter is not always available, and building/purchasing a dozen different ones and keeping them straight would be its own hassle. And in the end we'd still need 115v for the devices that are actually AC.

So there's all that. I've skimmed the thread. Others are saying similar things. Mainly I'm posting to get my post-count up
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Old 11-01-2019, 07:59   #28
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Re: Inverter for bluewater sailboat?

Bottom line is some people want to sail like they are camping, others like they are in a home.

Now you guys got me buying a bread maker !!! ��
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Old 11-01-2019, 08:03   #29
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Re: Inverter for bluewater sailboat?

The victron 3000va / 24 volt has an efficiency of 94 % that would be enough for me to choose for the ac side of things which are most likely cheaper and more efficient then the 12 volt appliances.
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:39   #30
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Re: Inverter for bluewater sailboat?

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The victron 3000va / 24 volt has an efficiency of 94 % that would be enough for me to choose for the ac side of things which are most likely cheaper and more efficient then the 12 volt appliances.
Which model are you looking at? I'm by no means replacing a functional Magnum, but I need to have ideas ready to go in case it fails.
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