|
|
26-10-2015, 06:47
|
#1
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ottawa,Canada
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 37' Catamaran
Posts: 570
|
Internal alternator regulator or external
We are in the process of replacing our old Yanmar with a 3YM30AE ( YANMAR | 3YM30AE ). The YM30 comes with a 125A alternator which is internally regulated. Our old engine had an external regulator and I am wondering if I should also get one for this new alternator. The old regulator is unusable due to it's age so I am considering a Balmer MC-614-H or ARS-5-H.
What advantages would I have using an external regulator?
House bank is currently 6 T-105s (675AHr)
Start batter and Thruster battery charged via Balmer Digital Duo Chargers
Geoff.
|
|
|
26-10-2015, 08:59
|
#2
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Holladay, UT
Boat: Nordic Tug 37
Posts: 394
|
Re: Internal alternator regulator or external
Don't know about that particular Yanmar alternator, but my understanding is internally regulated alternators are generally not "smart" or multi-stage regulated, so they don't do a very good job charging a house bank, especially a larger one. Maybe newer ones are better??
My Max Charge 614 does this very well.
__________________
Richard Cook
Dream Catcher (Nordic Tug 37) Poulsbo WA
"Cruising in a Big Way"
|
|
|
26-10-2015, 09:14
|
#3
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Oregon
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 5,563
|
Re: Internal alternator regulator or external
I don't think there is room inside an alternator to have a smart regulator built in. My only experience with an internal regulator was bad. It just could not handle our 7 batteries all at once and eventually burned up trying.
|
|
|
26-10-2015, 11:03
|
#5
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 20,437
|
Re: Internal alternator regulator or external
Some engine manufacturers invalidate the warranty if you replace the internal regulator. Engine warranty. No, not a typo.
If you want plenty of charge quick then an internal regulator is IMHO a joke.
b.
|
|
|
26-10-2015, 17:34
|
#6
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 9,706
|
Re: Internal alternator regulator or external
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel
If you want plenty of charge quick then an internal regulator is IMHO a joke.
b.
|
Not necessarily.
How Alternators & Regulators Work PLUS External vs. Internal Regulators (by Maine Sail): Musings Regarding External Regulation | SailboatOwners.com Forums
The "problem" is the Hitachi alternator's built in temperature sensing.
This is NOT present on all the rest of the internally regulated alternators.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
|
|
|
26-10-2015, 20:26
|
#7
|
cruiser
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably in an anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 5,030
|
Re: Internal alternator regulator or external
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel
If you want plenty of charge quick then an internal regulator is IMHO a joke.
|
Depends on the age. Newer internal regulators may be set at a higher voltage than older ones, mine has a CV of 14.6V at the batteries.
|
|
|
27-10-2015, 08:34
|
#8
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 20,437
|
Re: Internal alternator regulator or external
Quote:
Originally Posted by conachair
Depends on the age. Newer internal regulators may be set at a higher voltage than older ones, mine has a CV of 14.6V at the batteries.
|
I have tested an original VP internal regulator (new engine, around 2012, alt about 115 if I remember well) then we employed an external regulator (Sterling in this case). We tested towards a half emptied but otherwise sound/new battery.
In our case the external alternator not only gave initially higher charge but also the battery came to full charge in about half the time against the internal regulator.
I was not aware that there are around internal alt regulators in factory mounted marine engines that would be anything but a remote cousin of an external three or four stage alt regulator.
I am glad you told me I was wrong. I might save some bucks when buying our future inboard.
Cheers,
b.
|
|
|
27-10-2015, 08:44
|
#9
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 9,706
|
Re: Internal alternator regulator or external
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel
I am glad you told me I was wrong. I might save some bucks when buying our future inboard.
Cheers,
b.
|
Not that you were wrong, but that Maine Sail's explanation in my link discussed the differences and applications of both.
For many folks, internal regulation may be all they need.
Much of the choice(s) we have in any boating system depends on how we use our boats.
Marina hoppers need different things than anchor outs, for example.
Your boat, your choice.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
|
|
|
27-10-2015, 09:04
|
#10
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Tacoma, Washington, USA
Boat: Casacde 36
Posts: 596
|
Re: Internal alternator regulator or external
I'll skip all the theory;
I have a Yanmar 30GM and replaced the original alternator with an 80 amp (max I can use with single belt) from DB Electrical ( direct fit replacement).
I added an external Sterling regulator, which brings my battery bank up, from about 60%, in about 50 mins or so. The regulator has a temp sensor to protect things. So far, 3 years ( we live aboard, and mostly anchor out for 5 months per year) and the whole system has been trouble free.
A few of my acquaintances have Balmar set ups, and most have some kind of "issue".
Good luck and let me know if I can help you with it.
|
|
|
27-10-2015, 09:17
|
#11
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: On board in Leros, Greece
Boat: Hunter Legend 420 Passage
Posts: 863
|
Re: Internal alternator regulator or external
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson
....The "problem" is the Hitachi alternator's built in temperature sensing.
This is NOT present on all the rest of the internally regulated alternators.
|
I'm not sure you are correct with that statement.
I have a Balmar series 6 hot rated top johny 100 amp alternator with an internal regulator that starts happily at 14.4v and falls quickly to below 14v as the engine heats up to about 65C. I have spoken with Balmar and this is not to protect the alternator which will go up to 105C, but to protect the batteries which it assumes are in the engine compartment.
This internal regulator I believe works like MOST car alternators but it is a useful backup if my external Balmar regulator fails. I have a simple two way switch to go between internal and external.
|
|
|
27-10-2015, 09:20
|
#12
|
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,485
|
Re: Internal alternator regulator or external
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson
Not that you were wrong, but that Maine Sail's explanation in my link discussed the differences and applications of both.
For many folks, internal regulation may be all they need.
Much of the choice(s) we have in any boating system depends on how we use our boats.
Marina hoppers need different things than anchor outs, for example.
Your boat, your choice.
|
Not one of his better (normally excellent) write ups I think. My interpretation was: if your application doesnt require an external regulator and/or you dont fully utilize its features (like programable set points) then you dont need one...OK...I'll buy that.
However, in my experience (admittedly no formal testing) an external makes a big difference over most internals. For example, Ive swaped in a simple internal regulator on my alternators when the external was having a problem. It works, but charge times are much longer and never really seem to get to full SOC.
Also, some of the features of externals do come in quite handy for some applications. Features I use for example: programable set points, automatic paralleling (to drive paralleling solenoids, which works even if the engines are off...handy for solar maintenance of all batteries), dual alternators...
|
|
|
27-10-2015, 09:21
|
#13
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ottawa,Canada
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 37' Catamaran
Posts: 570
|
Re: Internal alternator regulator or external
Stu,
Thanks so much for these links! Some good reading. Being an EE nothing surprised me.. other than the fact that the Hitachi's regulators are garbage!
Now the question is can I hook up an external regulator to it or do I need to salvage my older Balmer Alternator and swap them?
Geoff.
|
|
|
27-10-2015, 09:30
|
#14
|
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
|
Re: Internal alternator regulator or external
See I wouldn't say Hitachi's regs are garbage, they do exactly what the manufacturer wants, protects the alternator.
I'd bet this temperature cut back adds years to the life of the Alt., and for the majority of people that plug into shore power after the day's sailing it's a good piece of kit.
But, I desire three stage charging, with adjustable set points. I don't know of anybody's internal reg that does that.
Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
|
|
|
27-10-2015, 09:41
|
#15
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,150
|
Re: Internal alternator regulator or external
Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor
Not one of his better (normally excellent) write ups I think. My interpretation was: if your application doesnt require an external regulator and/or you dont fully utilize its features (like programable set points) then you dont need one...OK...I'll buy that.
However, in my experience (admittedly no formal testing) an external makes a big difference over most internals. For example, Ive swaped in a simple internal regulator on my alternators when the external was having a problem. It works, but charge times are much longer and never really seem to get to full SOC.
Also, some of the features of externals do come in quite handy for some applications. Features I use for example: programable set points, automatic paralleling (to drive paralleling solenoids, which works even if the engines are off...handy for solar maintenance of all batteries), dual alternators...
|
With an external,programmable regulator, you can set up a central control center with solar, wind,and underwater prop generators that feed via the regulator to maintain a set charge level while your using the batteries for various boat functions. If you got the room, can even have a small diesel generator setup so you can bypass the main engine entirely and program it to start when batteries dip to a defined charge level. Makes the batteries a lot happier.
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Rate This Thread |
Linear Mode
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Advertise Here
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Vendor Spotlight |
|
|
|
|
|