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Old 20-10-2009, 18:13   #46
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Grunzer,
You lost your thread.
But.

All I have read is that that is the best way for the Gemini to route the hoses. Fuse and wire size, well, bigger is "always" better. But having only 5" in height for the pump makes it a small one.

I talked to Steve last week and he said the hose run is not very easy. I don't know exactly where to drill the holes into the steering well - maybe just enlarge the one that is there.

And bilge pumps, as noted above but not stated specifically, are really only good for nuisance leaks. Any true holing and the amount they remove before you either sink or plug the hole is negligible IMO.

One owner had a really big one (that might keep up ) with long hose and alligator clips in a bag. Toss it in either hull and start with the plugging - dunno, might work.
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Old 21-10-2009, 09:05   #47
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Therapy,

Yeah, the more I read this thread, the more I wonder if it's really worth the effort for what you get in return, especially being a full-time live aboard on a Gem. After the whole Cases Closed incident, I became paranoid about this. I'm starting to wonder if concentrating on removing some thru hulls, especially below the water line ones (which I was planning on anyway), and finding more spaces to stuff even more foam, would be more productive? If I can make the boat unsinkable, what do I even need the pump for? Plus then I can finally foam up those cable holes, and pick up another can to plug a big hole in an emergency.

Another option is just really taking advantage of one of the reasons I chose her to begin with. Worst case, you can't sink too much in <3' of water. May get lonely being the only one in those anchorages, though. Hmmm...I really need to find me an admiral...or at least a first mate.

I do like that idea of the big pump though. Could even get 2, with switches, and connect them only when leaving the boat for an extended period. Here's a crazy thought. What about connecting 12v plugs on them? In an emergency, that would save a lot of time over alligator clips.

What about just routing the hoses under the cockpit and adding drains there, right next to the aft bunks? would be a much shorter run, with less twists and turns too.
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Old 21-10-2009, 09:51   #48
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Sinking is one thing, dry is another, I would still want a pump, even if there was no chance of sinking, just to keep things dry inside.
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Old 21-10-2009, 16:59   #49
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Originally Posted by rustypirate View Post
Sinking is one thing, dry is another, I would still want a pump, even if there was no chance of sinking, just to keep things dry inside.
Most Gems are dry - mine is.

And there are hoses and a pump that can drain the bilges on all of them. Just not dedicated bilge pumps in the hulls as standard. Option, yes. Dunno why anyone would order without but then only one Gem has been reported as sinking at the dock. One out of a thousand and they never determined the cause. Strange as it sounds that is the scuttlebutt.
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Old 21-10-2009, 17:19   #50
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Therapy,

Yeah, the more I read this thread, the more I wonder if it's really worth the effort for what you get in return, especially being a full-time live aboard on a Gem. After the whole Cases Closed incident, I became paranoid about this. I'm starting to wonder if concentrating on removing some thru hulls, especially below the water line ones (which I was planning on anyway), and finding more spaces to stuff even more foam, would be more productive? If I can make the boat unsinkable, what do I even need the pump for? Plus then I can finally foam up those cable holes, and pick up another can to plug a big hole in an emergency.

Another option is just really taking advantage of one of the reasons I chose her to begin with. Worst case, you can't sink too much in <3' of water. May get lonely being the only one in those anchorages, though. Hmmm...I really need to find me an admiral...or at least a first mate.

I do like that idea of the big pump though. Could even get 2, with switches, and connect them only when leaving the boat for an extended period. Here's a crazy thought. What about connecting 12v plugs on them? In an emergency, that would save a lot of time over alligator clips.

What about just routing the hoses under the cockpit and adding drains there, right next to the aft bunks? would be a much shorter run, with less twists and turns too.
Being paranoid aint necessarily bad.

Which through hulls - there arent many?

Unsinkable maybe but flooded non the less with everything in the hull (s) ruined.

Can spray foam seal a big hole quickly? How?

That will cost you a lot more than a super-duper pump system.


When you sourse the parts, let me know. I am thinking of that alternative too.

Too close to the water line with a hard to do vented loop. Water pressure etc concerns have made the consensus vote for that a "no".
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Old 21-10-2009, 21:35   #51
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Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
Being paranoid aint necessarily bad.

Which through hulls - there arent many?

Unsinkable maybe but flooded non the less with everything in the hull (s) ruined.

Can spray foam seal a big hole quickly? How?

That will cost you a lot more than a super-duper pump system.


When you sourse the parts, let me know. I am thinking of that alternative too.

Too close to the water line with a hard to do vented loop. Water pressure etc concerns have made the consensus vote for that a "no".
Yeah, I guess as long as it's with a valid reason.

Probably the AC, since I plan to be living on the hook as much as possible anyway. Besides I made it through summer here without even using it. Also removing both speed impellers, and patching those holes.

Well, unless you run her on the beach?

Yup, Stu on the Gem board did it once. I think on his old cat. I think he said he jammed a rag in there and then sprayed it with foam. And it held up like that until his next haul out!

True, but they're at least multi purpose, and do more then just pump

Will do.

Really, even if there was a piece of pipe with a nice bend in it coming out of the bottom?
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Old 22-10-2009, 17:29   #52
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Yeah, I guess as long as it's with a valid reason.

Probably the AC, since I plan to be living on the hook as much as possible anyway. Besides I made it through summer here without even using it. Also removing both speed impellers, and patching those holes.

Two speed impellers?? But why would you not want "through the water" speed info?

Well, unless you run her on the beach?

I think the chances of getting to a beach that is good enough to not break her up before things are flooded and ruined are small.

Yup, Stu on the Gem board did it once. I think on his old cat. I think he said he jammed a rag in there and then sprayed it with foam. And it held up like that until his next haul out!

Interesting.

True, but they're at least multi purpose, and do more then just pump

Yea, if you can afford it. About the three "Fs" though, you already have one.

Will do.

Really, even if there was a piece of pipe with a nice bend in it coming out of the bottom?

Maybe but your loop would have to (I am thinking here) come up at least as high as the cockpit sole. That makes it 10-12" above the level of the berth +- ?? I say this because you have to account for the pressure of the waves generated between the hulls. Think of how hard a slap sounds/feels. That pressure put to a hole with no resistance could let a bit of water into the hose. Then how long does it take to drain by gravity before the next slap. Makes me think the loop would have to be pretty high. I don't know how to test it before drilling. I will let you do that
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Old 23-10-2009, 06:04   #53
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Two speed impellers?? But why would you not want "through the water" speed info?

Yeah, still not 100% sure what the second one is connected to and neither works. Well one worked until a soft grounding barely even out of Florida on the trip up. They seem to get gunked up very easily, that housing and plug they use aren't exactly the most robust piece of gear (I don't trust it 100%), and I think SOG is much more valuable info. You know about how fast your boat goes, and how hard your pushing her, so you should be able to kind of guestimate water speed. But SOG tells you how fast you're really gong to get there...or if it's going to hurt or not when you hit that dock.

I think the chances of getting to a beach that is good enough to not break her up before things are flooded and ruined are small.

Guess that all depends on water depth, bottom, how far off the beach you are, and the size of that hole. And if you have those 2 giant pumps running.

Yea, if you can afford it. About the three "Fs" though, you already have one.

Point taken. Maybe renting would be a better option, but I'll need to find one for the trip down too.

Maybe but your loop would have to (I am thinking here) come up at least as high as the cockpit sole. That makes it 10-12" above the level of the berth +- ?? I say this because you have to account for the pressure of the waves generated between the hulls. Think of how hard a slap sounds/feels. That pressure put to a hole with no resistance could let a bit of water into the hose. Then how long does it take to drain by gravity before the next slap. Makes me think the loop would have to be pretty high. I don't know how to test it before drilling. I will let you do that

Put an extra bend or two, put them close to the hulls, and have the opening facing out towards the hull?

Wow! We totally hijacked this thread and really took it off in 100 different directions, but considering it was my thread, does make it ok?
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Old 23-10-2009, 07:05   #54
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Wow! We totally hijacked this thread and really took it off in 100 different directions, but considering it was my thread, does make it ok?
HEHE.
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