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Old 05-09-2016, 07:06   #1
er9
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Installing another outlet.

I'd like to put an 110 electric outlet at the navigation desk. the only outlet on the entire starboard side of boat is at the sink for the head. i rarely if ever use it and would much prefer one at the navigation desk.

the current outlet is on its own switch at the distribution panel. could i just cut into the line that feeds the outlet in the head and tee off my new outlet at the navi desk?

it seems so long as im careful not to overload that line there should be no problem but just want to double check.
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Old 05-09-2016, 07:36   #2
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Re: Installing another outlet.

The problems come in connectors and cable. Yes, fine as long as you don't overload, which you probably won't given the small draw of solid state electronics. By switch I assume you mean circuit breaker. A simple way to branch without getting into connector troubles would be to wire directly from the head outlet screws to the screws on the new outlet. The new outlet should be Ground Fault, because you will have bypassed the head breaker (If that outlet's not GFCI, replace it while you're in there). The remaining question is finding electrical cable that meets boat standards. I found that the easiest source of cable that met all the marine standards was industrial grade extension cord. No wire nuts. Crimp only.
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Old 05-09-2016, 07:41   #3
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Re: Installing another outlet.

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Originally Posted by er9 View Post
I'd like to put an 110 electric outlet at the navigation desk. the only outlet on the entire starboard side of boat is at the sink for the head. i rarely if ever use it and would much prefer one at the navigation desk.

the current outlet is on its own switch at the distribution panel. could i just cut into the line that feeds the outlet in the head and tee off my new outlet at the navi desk?

It's not uncommon to chain from one outlet to another... and the receptacles are usually designed to accommodate that. Easiest, of course, if you can snake the new cable in...

The breaker is usually there to protect the wire, but in general if you've got a 15-amp breaker you can run most anything you'd commonly use in a head or at a nav station.

Yes, put a GFCI on the circuit, if there's not one already.

FWIW, our AC wiring is 10/3 "boat cable" available at probably almost any chandlery.

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Old 05-09-2016, 07:54   #4
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Re: Installing another outlet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by er9 View Post
I'd like to put an 110 electric outlet at the navigation desk. the only outlet on the entire starboard side of boat is at the sink for the head. i rarely if ever use it and would much prefer one at the navigation desk.

the current outlet is on its own switch at the distribution panel. could i just cut into the line that feeds the outlet in the head and tee off my new outlet at the navi desk?

it seems so long as im careful not to overload that line there should be no problem but just want to double check.
You can have multiple electrical outlets on a single circuit, but if you have to ask, I would question your ability to do this correctly and safely. I suggest having a qualified marine electrician do this for you.

I don't mean to insult you, just keep you safe.
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Old 05-09-2016, 07:57   #5
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Re: Installing another outlet.

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Originally Posted by tkeithlu View Post
..........I found that the easiest source of cable that met all the marine standards was industrial grade extension cord. ..........
NO, NO, and again, NO! Buy proper triplex (three conductor) boat cable at a marine retailer or on line.

Another argument to hire a marine electrician.
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Old 05-09-2016, 08:31   #6
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Re: Installing another outlet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by er9 View Post
I'd like to put an 110 electric outlet at the navigation desk. the only outlet on the entire starboard side of boat is at the sink for the head. i rarely if ever use it and would much prefer one at the navigation desk.

the current outlet is on its own switch at the distribution panel. could i just cut into the line that feeds the outlet in the head and tee off my new outlet at the navi desk?

it seems so long as im careful not to overload that line there should be no problem but just want to double check.
I concur with others, that if you have to ask this question, you are not adequately knowledgeable and skilled to perform the task.

But the correct answer is, if the outlet in the head isn't a GFCI it should be, so that needs to be changed.

If it makes sense to run a cable from the GFCI in the head, rather than a new branch circuit from the AC distribution panel, then one can connect to the GFCI protected "load" terminals on the GFCI to a regular duplex receptacle

If running a new cable from the distribution panel and the nav station is in a location that can be splashed (most can with companion way open and spray or boarding waves) it should be a GFCI.

If one "taps" into wires (not connecting in parallel at existing terminals in the circuit) you should use a non-metallic junction box, blank lid, terminal block and ring or spade connectors. This should be accessible without destroying the boat for troubleshooting purposes.

90% of boats I inspect that have DIY electrical mods are non-compliant, and 80% of those are patently unsafe.

There are a bazillion other details to make the installation ABYC compliant, and safe, so if your aren't intimately familiar with the standards for your area (ABYC E11 for North America), and able to apply them without deviation, find someone who can. Electricity and water don't mix. Stay safe.
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Old 05-09-2016, 08:39   #7
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Re: Installing another outlet.

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
You can have multiple electrical outlets on a single circuit, but if you have to ask, I would question your ability to do this correctly and safely. I suggest having a qualified marine electrician do this for you.

I don't mean to insult you, just keep you safe.
none taken...i appreciate your caution. i would like to do this myself. you have to start somewhere. i'm not completely unfamiliar with wiring outlets...iv'e done a few on houses but boats are new to me. I want to make sure there are no circumstances unique to a boat that would be a unique safety issue. i will not do anything though until i'm completely certain what i'm doing is correct and definately will have it double checked by an electrician before i button everything up.

no GFCI outlets. original circa 1980 outlets. line comes from the distribution panel (AC side obviously) which is protected by a single main circuit breaker, it also has its own toggle switch which has its own 15amp circuit breaker. each outlet onboard is wired this way. wiring originally used looks to be standard house wire in white insulation. cant tell if its marine grade but i'm considering replacing while i have everything opened up.
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Old 05-09-2016, 08:44   #8
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Re: Installing another outlet.

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
I concur with others, that if you have to ask this question, you are not adequately knowledgeable and skilled to perform the task.

But the correct answer is, if the outlet in the head isn't a GFCI it should be, so that needs to be changed.

If it makes sense to run a cable from the GFCI in the head, rather than a new branch circuit from the AC distribution panel, then one can connect to the GFCI protected "load" terminals on the GFCI to a regular duplex receptacle

If running a new cable from the distribution panel and the nav station is in a location that can be splashed (most can with companion way open and spray or boarding waves) it should be a GFCI.

If one "taps" into wires (not connecting in parallel at existing terminals in the circuit) you should use a non-metallic junction box, blank lid, terminal block and ring or spade connectors. This should be accessible without destroying the boat for troubleshooting purposes.

90% of boats I inspect that have DIY electrical mods are non-compliant, and 80% of those are patently unsafe.

There are a bazillion other details to make the installation ABYC compliant, and safe, so if your aren't intimately familiar with the standards for your area (ABYC E11 for North America), and able to apply them without deviation, find someone who can. Electricity and water don't mix. Stay safe.
Much thanks. i am currently familiarizing myself with the standards and happen to know someone who is an marine electrician trained and certified with them so he will be inspecting my work.
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Old 05-09-2016, 12:38   #9
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Re: Installing another outlet.

ether chain off the outlet (they have 2 connections and are designed for this) or the panel (just put 2nd wire on breaker screw). don't join part way up the cable. (unless that is where you outlet is going, then the chain is at that new outlet, instead of existing one, but this is hard to do as there likly won't be any cable slack to do this.
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Old 05-09-2016, 12:42   #10
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Re: Installing another outlet.

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Originally Posted by er9 View Post
none taken...i appreciate your caution. i would like to do this myself. you have to start somewhere. i'm not completely unfamiliar with wiring outlets...iv'e done a few on houses but boats are new to me. I want to make sure there are no circumstances unique to a boat that would be a unique safety issue. i will not do anything though until i'm completely certain what i'm doing is correct and definately will have it double checked by an electrician before i button everything up.

no GFCI outlets. original circa 1980 outlets. line comes from the distribution panel (AC side obviously) which is protected by a single main circuit breaker, it also has its own toggle switch which has its own 15amp circuit breaker. each outlet onboard is wired this way. wiring originally used looks to be standard house wire in white insulation. cant tell if its marine grade but i'm considering replacing while i have everything opened up.
if it is solid core house wire then yes it should be replaced with stranded boat cable. the solid stuff can break over time from vibration.
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Old 05-09-2016, 12:47   #11
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Re: Installing another outlet.

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Originally Posted by tkeithlu View Post
The new outlet should be Ground Fault, because you will have bypassed the head breaker (If that outlet's not GFCI, replace it while you're in there). The remaining question is finding electrical cable that meets boat standards. I found that the easiest source of cable that met all the marine standards was industrial grade extension cord. No wire nuts. Crimp only.

he certainly should not and will not bypass the head outlet breaker. you dont put a GCI after a CGI, that is what the output side of the GFI is for. and you also don't use extension cord wiring for permanent installs...

you are clueless and a bigger danger then the OP is.
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Old 05-09-2016, 18:07   #12
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Re: Installing another outlet.

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he certainly should not and will not bypass the head outlet breaker. you dont put a GCI after a CGI, that is what the output side of the GFI is for. and you also don't use extension cord wiring for permanent installs...

you are clueless and a bigger danger then the OP is.
Cmon no need put people down. Needlessly criticizing and making people look like fools is not a way to educate a person. One can genuinely feel their knowledge is viable and be wrong. The net has enough a-hole experts we dont need any more. If you want to prevent someone from genuinly making a dangerous mistake...educate them. Teachers and professors dont ridicule their studwnts trying to learn. The net forums are a source of informatiin and learning. ..thats why were here asking questions, getting other, more educated perspectives....ok rant over...thank you for your input...the wire is solid core not strand.
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Old 05-09-2016, 18:23   #13
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Re: Installing another outlet.

We have several 110v outlets but don't run heavy loads and use only one at a time usually... The inverter is 1000 watts and the loads are a 28" TV... a laptop brick for charging... a charger for the Milwaukee Lithium battery... and an occasional work lamp or the sabre saw or drill.

Use marine grade tinned stranded wire. Fuse the circuits properly (BlueSeas) and watch for reverse polarity when you wire them. Probably chain them and use a 15 amp breaker. (I have 4 chained).

We have a Blue Seas selector switch which can switch them over to shore power. But I am rarely on shore power except for winter storage.
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Old 05-09-2016, 19:25   #14
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Re: Installing another outlet.

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Cmon no need put people down. Needlessly criticizing and making people look like fools is not a way to educate a person. One can genuinely feel their knowledge is viable and be wrong. The net has enough a-hole experts we dont need any more. If you want to prevent someone from genuinly making a dangerous mistake...educate them. Teachers and professors dont ridicule their studwnts trying to learn. The net forums are a source of informatiin and learning. ..thats why were here asking questions, getting other, more educated perspectives....ok rant over...thank you for your input...the wire is solid core not strand.
I am not criticizing a learner. I am criticizing a "teacher" who gave 3 wrong answers to a learner (on a single question). there is a big difference.
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Old 06-09-2016, 03:32   #15
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Re: Installing another outlet.

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...
But the correct answer is, if the outlet in the head isn't a GFCI it should be, so that needs to be changed.

If it makes sense to run a cable from the GFCI in the head, rather than a new branch circuit from the AC distribution panel, then one can connect to the GFCI protected "load" terminals on the GFCI to a regular duplex receptacle ...
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