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Old 24-10-2016, 23:57   #121
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Re: Installing a fuel polishing system

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Originally Posted by captain58sailin View Post
. . . I am absolutely paranoid about my fuel and go to extremes to see that I never have a fuel related failure, . . . The places I go, which include crossing the Columbia river bar, and the different rip tide areas of Alaska, demand that I be careful if I want to live.
Exactly.

Your sensitivity to the risk of fuel problems is very much related to where and how you sail. And what you sail.

If you knock around the bay with an outboard is one thing.

In other places, fuel problems can be a life or death issue.

I bunker nearly a ton of diesel fuel in my boat, and I suppose you have even more. I don't have a polishing system, but my next boat will have one (also, a day tank).

I do open my tanks and clean them out every two years, and I inspect the bowls (and vacuum gauge) of my dual Racors every time I start up. I have a whole case of filter elements within easy reach; spare fuel hose and clamps; etc., and a jerry can of emergency fuel.

Loss of power while crossing a bar or passing rocks in 6 knot tides like we have around here could be death. So like you, I am absolutely paranoid about fuel.

This is Jedi's fuel system:

Click image for larger version

Name:	jedifuelsystem.jpg
Views:	136
Size:	102.0 KB
ID:	133802

Which will be the starting point for the fuel system on my next boat, which I will have custom built. There will be some changes, though -- for one, I will have a day tank, for another, separate pickups rather than a supply manifold.

There are many interesting features of this system. Note that he drains from the bottoms of the sumps -- forbidden by ABYC but I will do it too.

Also his primary filters are 2 micron -- very interesting. That's how confident he is that the tank fuel is always clean.
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Old 25-10-2016, 01:42   #122
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Re: Installing a fuel polishing system

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Old 25-10-2016, 02:34   #123
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Re: Installing a fuel polishing system

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Old 25-10-2016, 03:00   #124
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Re: Installing a fuel polishing system

This is the filter set up on our current yacht:

The main engine has a Racor 900 series filter, but with the flick of a couple of valves, the engine will run from the generator's Racor 500 filter. This has a separate fuel tank pick up, creating an independent fuel supply system.

The system will also permit clean fuel to be pumped from one filter to the other. This is great when changing filter elements, as there is no need then to have a fuel container to top up the filter housing. It also ensures the topped up fuel is already filtered.

The final filter is the polishing filter, also a Racor 900. It has been deliberately kept completely separate. It has its own pick up that goes right to the bottom of the tank.

You can purchase this filter system and we will throw in the rest of the boat for free .

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Old 25-10-2016, 03:18   #125
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Re: Installing a fuel polishing system

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Originally Posted by Martkimwat View Post
I am in the process of adding a proper tank gauge to my stainless steel 60 litre diesel tank , as the sight gauge is hard to read especially below half full. In the process, I intend to add a basic fuel polishing setup comprising a 115 Lph fuel pump which draws just over 1amp and and a Parker Racor 500FG diesel fuel filter water separator. I will use the two spigots of the sight gauge as the outlet and inlet for the polisher setup. My question is, would it be okay to wire the pump through the ignition switch directly, so that when the ignition is turned on, the pump runs and starts polishing the fuel. The ignition panel is for a Yanmar 2GM20 comprising the keyed ignition switch, a start button and four warning lights. Is the ignition switch man enough to carry this continuous load? I also intend to add a bypass switch to be able to switch it on directly without turning on the ignition so that I can run it once a month for an hour in the winter to keep the fuel 'sweet'. I might add I use motor diesel here in UK to avoid red diesel issues with going foreign. my usage is is so little that I don't consider the extra cost to be an issue. The boat is a Parker 27.
As often happens, we've forgotten about the OP.

Some remarks:

1. You want the polisher to pick up from the lowest possible point in the sump of the tank and in any case lower than the engine pickup. This is crucial. Do not use the sight glass taps.

2. Yanmar electrics are a bit dodgy to begin with. I wouldn't, personally, molest them by wiring the polisher to the ignition. I would just tap the main panel with a separate switch. Obviously fuse or CB mandatory.

3. Motor diesel in the UK may bio in it. Avoid bio at all costs!! I would not, personally, use anything but pure mineral marine diesel in my boat, and going foreign with red is no longer a problem so long as you keep a full duty paid receipt.

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Old 25-10-2016, 04:33   #126
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Re: Installing a fuel polishing system

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
This is the filter set up on our current yacht:

The main engine has a Racor 900 series filter, but with the flick of a couple of valves, the engine will run from the generator's Racor 500 filter. This has a separate fuel tank pick up, creating an independent fuel supply system.

The system will also permit clean fuel to be pumped from one filter to the other. This is great when changing filter elements, as there is no need then to have a fuel container to top up the filter housing. It also ensures the topped up fuel is already filtered.

The final filter is the polishing filter, also a Racor 900. It has been deliberately kept completely separate. It has its own pick up that goes right to the bottom of the tank.

You can purchase this filter system and we will throw in the rest of the boat for free .

Buy a boat without a centrifuge, you gota be kidding me!!!!!!!!!
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Old 25-10-2016, 04:39   #127
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Re: Installing a fuel polishing system

What happened to the days you could throw the dog in the boat and go for a sail? Seems we all need Radar and a quadruple redundant fuel polishing system or we are flirting with disaster.
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Old 25-10-2016, 04:53   #128
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Re: Installing a fuel polishing system

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What happened to the days you could throw the dog in the boat and go for a sail? Seems we all need Radar and a quadruple redundant fuel polishing system or we are flirting with disaster.
Please go sailing.
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Old 25-10-2016, 05:19   #129
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Re: Installing a fuel polishing system

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Exactly.

Your sensitivity to the risk of fuel problems is very much related to where and how you sail. And what you sail.

This is Jedi's fuel system:

Attachment 133802
Interesting diagram. It looks as if they are taking fuel from the bottom of the sump (via the 30micron filter)!

How many tanks will you have on your new boat Dockhead? and why no manifolds? I'm guessing just two tanks plus the day tank?

Day tanks are the way to go they give you 24 hours or so (mine gives me 3 days) of running on freshly filtered and checked fuel.
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Old 25-10-2016, 05:23   #130
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Re: Installing a fuel polishing system

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmacdonald View Post
What happened to the days you could throw the dog in the boat and go for a sail? Seems we all need Radar and a quadruple redundant fuel polishing system or we are flirting with disaster.
It depends on what kind of sailing you're doing.

I used to have a day sailer on a trailer - radar? Fuel polishing? What's that? When the fuel is in a red plastic gas can. Had tons of fun on that boat.

But that's entirely different from sailing thousands of miles in a season, days or weeks at a time out of sight of land, in all kinds of weather and sometimes in heavy traffic, on a 20 or 30 ton vessel, responsible for 6 or seven people on board. It's a very different kind of sailing, and the way you do it in the bay doesn’t transfer over.

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Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
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Old 25-10-2016, 05:30   #131
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Re: Installing a fuel polishing system

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It would solve all of a64 issues simply because it negates the requirement for all the filters to work so hard by only having a clean source of fuel to important parts.




Weavis, it would solve none of my issues, reason is because I'm not clogging filters, never have. adding additional filtration would do nothing.

And, I haven't read the rest of this thread, yet, but what 99% of what you gys are missing is that you can't actually install a proper fuel polishing system on most factory fuel tanks, you don't have the proper sized pick up, nor do you have it in the right place.

Now the boat with the centrifuge, that is a whole different animal than simply adding another filter and an electric pump.
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Old 25-10-2016, 05:45   #132
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Re: Installing a fuel polishing system

The primary difference between fuel polishing and fuel filtration is that fuel polishing acknowledges that fuel itself can degrade and cause solids. Fuel filters will simply pull the solids out because they plug up filters whereas fuel polishers break down the combustible solids so that the fuel stays within the industry specifications.

It prevents bacterial growth and keeps everything clean.

Fuel polishing uses centrifuges, coalescers, and – yes – filters to remove non-combustible particulate matter (sand, dust, cigarette wrappers, lady bugs) from fuel. In short, everything that wasn’t really supposed to be there in the first place.

I have never seen it as a filtration unit per se.
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Old 25-10-2016, 05:49   #133
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Re: Installing a fuel polishing system

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
It depends on what kind of sailing you're doing.

I used to have a day sailer on a trailer - radar? Fuel polishing? What's that? When the fuel is in a red plastic gas can. Had tons of fun on that boat.

But that's entirely different from sailing thousands of miles in a season, days or weeks at a time out of sight of land, in all kinds of weather and sometimes in heavy traffic, on a 20 or 30 ton vessel, responsible for 6 or seven people on board. It's a very different kind of sailing, and the way you do it in the bay doesn’t transfer over.

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You're right. There is actually a lot of commercial and recreational traffic in the bay to avoid unlike the vast empty ocean.
I'm looking forward to a lightning protection thread. Now that could really get interesting-----you know----copper helmets and other ESSENTIAL equipment.
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Old 25-10-2016, 05:55   #134
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Re: Installing a fuel polishing system

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Originally Posted by kmacdonald View Post
You're right. There is actually a lot of commercial and recreational traffic in the bay to avoid unlike the vast empty ocean.
I'm looking forward to a lightning protection thread. Now that could really get interesting-----you know----copper helmets and other ESSENTIAL equipment.
Are you trolling?

What does the bottom of your fuel tank look like? If you don't know then you are passing an important, no, vital maintenance item. Just MHO.
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Old 25-10-2016, 06:14   #135
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Re: Installing a fuel polishing system

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Originally Posted by kmacdonald View Post
What happened to the days you could throw the dog in the boat and go for a sail? Seems we all need Radar and a quadruple redundant fuel polishing system or we are flirting with disaster.

It is the internet phenomena, and its a trap that is easily fallen into, because we want to be cautious and safe.
We get to believing that we must have all of these goodies, or we will fail.
I believe it keeps a bunch of folks from ever going, cause they need to buy more stuff the last expert they talked to told them they had to have, so they sit and never leave.
Way I see it is I have X amount of money, start prioritizing "goodies" from a most desirable to a least desirable and stop when you have spent what your comfortable with.
I don't see the need to polish fuel myself, now if I carried a small fortune of fuel in my tank, then sure, maybe. But I carry 57 gls, and I am resourceful enough that I can easily rig a work around and burn fuel from my Jerry cans if I need to, and I do have those big white sheets on a pole too. As long as you pre filter with a Baja or similar when fuel is suspect, and carry several filter spares, I'd bet that what ever stops your engine is not likely dirty fuel.
I bought a box of 12 Racors off Ebay for $109 after someone here showed me the link. I have changed one, but more likely it was really a partially clogged dip tube and not a dirty filter.

My issues were I bought an older boat that had obviously been a Marina Queen most of her life and until I burned the first tank through, I had several instances of the dip tube clogging, I initially mis-diagnosed it as a lift pump as the filter and bowl were clean as a whistle. After the first tank, the "tofu" which was actually very old dead "bugs" was gone and has never re-appeared. total amount of tofu, maybe a teaspoon full? But initially it had me real worried as I was thinking maybe there was a whole layer of it and it would break up when we got into rough seas. Didn't turn out to be the case thankfully.
Then just recently, three years after the "tofu' incident I had the vacuum reading slowly creeping up on my primary Racor which is of course exactly what a clogging filter would show, so I changed the filter, only to keep most of the high vacuum reading. Ended up being a partially clogged dip tube again, with what looked like varnish flakes, about maybe 1cc total.

So in three years, on delivery I had a few instances of a clogged dip tube, and then very recently I had a partial clogged dip tube with what I think is old fuel varnish being cleaned off with ULSD as it acts as a solvent. In those three years I have burned I think about 500 gallons, based on number of engine hours, probably really about 600 gls as I have three hundred hours on the generator too.

So in three years and 600 gls of fuel burned, I have partially clogged a dip tube and changed a filter.
At no time have I ever had clogged filters.

I don't think I have a problem.
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