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Old 12-04-2015, 06:45   #1
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Installation for shore-power on old boat

Hi guys,

I am in the process of purchasing a 79' Albin Vega (27 foot).

The current owner has 2 AGM batteries on board, which is connected to lights and radio but there is no battery charger onboard.

The way I understood it, is when the batteries get low, he carries a big batterycharger to the boat and charges the batteries that way.

However, when I take over the boat, I of course want to install a permanent batterycharger on the boat, so I would just have to hook it up to shore power in the marina.

I looked at a CTEK MXS 5.0 charger, which I plan on buying for it.

Included with the boat, is a shorepower cable and that's it.

My question:

How do I make this installation? I suppose I need a breaker/fuse inbetween somewhere?

This would be unsafe, yes?:
220V Shorepower > Shorepower-cable > Batterycharger > Batteries

What is a safe way to install this? I searched a bit online but I wasn't able to find any clear answers, and afraid I don't know any electricians.

- Plus, I would also like to have a couple of 220V outlets installed at the same time of wiring this.
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Old 12-04-2015, 07:21   #2
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Re: Installation for shore-power on old boat

Quote:
afraid I don't know any electricians.

I'm sure there are a few in your area. what you really want is a "marine electrician". One who knows and follows the ABYC standards for marine electrical wiring.


Quote:
I suppose I need a breaker/fuse inbetween somewhere?

Yes you do and that's covered in the ABYC standards.
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Old 12-04-2015, 08:07   #3
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Re: Installation for shore-power on old boat

I presume this is 220vac single phrase. Then I would read the relevant ISO standard.

But in essence bring in the shower power via a combined RCB and overload breaker. Then on to the devices. If you are considering only one or two outlets, in total I would question the need for further breakers . For a more substantial installation, after the RCBO , wire to a double pole AC breaker panel and distribute live an neutral to relevant consumers from there.

Run am earth wire in parallel to the LN feed, only tie this power to the shore power earth.

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Old 12-04-2015, 08:40   #4
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Re: Installation for shore-power on old boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I presume this is 220vac single phrase. Then I would read the relevant ISO standard.

But in essence bring in the shower power via a combined RCB and overload breaker. Then on to the devices. If you are considering only one or two outlets, in total I would question the need for further breakers . For a more substantial installation, after the RCBO , wire to a double pole AC breaker panel and distribute live an neutral to relevant consumers from there.

Run am earth wire in parallel to the LN feed, only tie this power to the shore power earth.

Dave


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Hi Dave,

Yes, you are right this is for 220v.

I will get an electrician to look over or do the installation, but it's for me really important that I know how this stuff works.

So to break it all down, this is how I figured it should be:

Shorepower-station
>
Shorepower cable
>
Shorepower inlet
>
Cable from shorepower inlet to RCBO
>
RCBO
>
Cable to batterycharger
>
Batterycharger (CTEK MXS 5.0)
>
Battery
>
Fusebox
>
Panel for on/off
>
12v items

If I want to have a 220v outlet, it should be fitted right after the RCBO? (I will keep it to a single outlet)

And basically every single item I want to 'permanently' have hooked up to the battery needs a fuse inbetween itself and the Panel, yes?

I appreciate all the help I can get. First boatowner here
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Old 12-04-2015, 09:49   #5
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Re: Installation for shore-power on old boat

Where are you? I am an Electrician in Australia near Sydney. Above is good advice. A 5 amp charger is a little on the small side. The Ctek are a good unit but think at least 10. You can email me at matt@mgbryant.com

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Old 12-04-2015, 10:10   #6
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Re: Installation for shore-power on old boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben373 View Post
Where are you? I am an Electrician in Australia near Sydney. Above is good advice. A 5 amp charger is a little on the small side. The Ctek are a good unit but think at least 10. You can email me at matt@mgbryant.com

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Hi Matt,

I'm in Nothern Europe, so unfortunately too far away for some hands-on advice

You're probably right about the 5amp could be too small. Although when I would need to charge, i'd always have a full overnight stay, so it should be enough for a 50% discharge.

I made a diagram to show my thoughts about how the installation should be.

Would be nice if anyone could point out any faults

Please see uploaded attachment
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:23   #7
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Re: Installation for shore-power on old boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicks View Post
Hi Dave,



Yes, you are right this is for 220v.



I will get an electrician to look over or do the installation, but it's for me really important that I know how this stuff works.



So to break it all down, this is how I figured it should be:



Shorepower-station

>

Shorepower cable

>

Shorepower inlet

>

Cable from shorepower inlet to RCBO

>

RCBO

>

Cable to batterycharger

>

Batterycharger (CTEK MXS 5.0)

>

Battery

>

Fusebox

>

Panel for on/off

>

12v items



If I want to have a 220v outlet, it should be fitted right after the RCBO? (I will keep it to a single outlet)



And basically every single item I want to 'permanently' have hooked up to the battery needs a fuse inbetween itself and the Panel, yes?



I appreciate all the help I can get. First boatowner here

Yes re 220. I'm confused as to your battery, fuse and panel comment

Dave


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Old 12-04-2015, 10:32   #8
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Re: Installation for shore-power on old boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Yes re 220. I'm confused as to your battery, fuse and panel comment

Dave


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Hi Dave,

Yeah I wasn't sure either myself. But it seems like I would only need to run a single cable from the battery to the fusebox to deliver the power to all individual 12v items.

By that, I mean that I don't need to run wires all the way back to the battery for each 12v item.

if that makes sense?
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:40   #9
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Re: Installation for shore-power on old boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicks View Post
Hi Dave,



Yeah I wasn't sure either myself. But it seems like I would only need to run a single cable from the battery to the fusebox to deliver the power to all individual 12v items.



By that, I mean that I don't need to run wires all the way back to the battery for each 12v item.



if that makes sense?

Yes. Feed one supply to a fuse panel , then distribute DC from there. For extra protection fuse the battery wire to the panel.

But were mixing up a 220 and DC topic here.

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Old 12-04-2015, 10:46   #10
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Re: Installation for shore-power on old boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Yes. Feed one supply to a fuse panel , then distribute DC from there. For extra protection fuse the battery wire to the panel.

But were mixing up a 220 and DC topic here.

Dave


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I see. Great.

So in terms of which RCBO unit to purchase is there anything I need to be aware of here? I see a major price-span from 18$ upwards several hundres, but I don't find anything marine specific
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:54   #11
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Re: Installation for shore-power on old boat

There no marine specific RCBO. A good quality domestic one fitted will do. Some European boats fit the RCBO , in a small see through waterproof box right next to where the shore power enters the boat , typically in the cock pit locker.

30milliamp leakage trip, 16A load trip would be fine, you could go down to 10 A if you envisage light AC loads.

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Old 12-04-2015, 11:02   #12
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Re: Installation for shore-power on old boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
There no marine specific RCBO. A good quality domestic one fitted will do. Some European boats fit the RCBO , in a small see through waterproof box right next to where the shore power enters the boat , typically in the cock pit locker.

30milliamp leakage trip, 16A load trip would be fine, you could go down to 10 A if you envisage light AC loads.

Dave


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Hi Dave,

Thank you again for your answers, really helpful!

I just read somewhere that some domestic RCBO's just have 1-pole and that's not so good?

I checked the prices and can it be that for $39 you can get a good circuit breaker to use on the boat? Seems cheap when I compare them to some other units I found too
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Old 12-04-2015, 11:25   #13
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Re: Installation for shore-power on old boat

Okay,

I think I've found a solution, I just wanna check if that would be alright.

I found a RCBO with an outlet integrated. Could I plug in a regular household extension cord into that outlet - then plug the batterycharger into the extension cord + another 220v - or is that not good?

My attachments should illustrate my idea
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Old 12-04-2015, 12:37   #14
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Re: Installation for shore-power on old boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicks View Post
Okay,



I think I've found a solution, I just wanna check if that would be alright.



I found a RCBO with an outlet integrated. Could I plug in a regular household extension cord into that outlet - then plug the batterycharger into the extension cord + another 220v - or is that not good?



My attachments should illustrate my idea

Well it's not a great solution, but the RCBO is fine. You'd need to wire the incoming shore power lead into that box

All RCBOs should be 2 pole. Don't mix them up with a domestic breaker , that will typically be single pole

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Old 12-04-2015, 17:16   #15
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Re: Installation for shore-power on old boat

I'm not too familiar with euro wiring. but I'm pretty sure you're going to want branch circuits after the main RCBO. so with a charger and a couple plugs you need 2 smaller branch breakers as well.


I don't think you should be feeding 16a to circuits (direct from the main) to 220v outlets and chargers. They are probably much less. what is the standard circuit size for outlets in Europe? 16a at 220v would be double the power as a normal US outlet which seems unlikely.


that charger is way too small. if you are trying to charge 2x agm (200ah?) batteries at the dock while you are on the boat. you probably need a 40a. 5a probably wouldn't even charge the batteries because you probably use more then 5a while on it. so you'd still be discharging them while plugged in. just more slowly.
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