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Old 08-01-2016, 03:17   #46
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Re: Ideal Generator?

I'm reluctant to answer your question honestly "D"....but I will.
I am very new here and being brutally frank, putting myself on show....
I suspect that there is a strata factor to me and what I say. People on tiny boats, I think, tend to be dismissed, be given short shrift, assumed uneducated .....er, drop-outs/failures.
Certainly, 6 years on the hook in Oz has proven, unequivocally, that people in respectably sized boats are dismissive of me. Cant speak for others, but I'm disappointed by the ethos that "bigger is better".
Snobbery amongst many of the 'haves' is to me a glaring failure of respect/decency.
"D", because of your experience/status/respectability and the fact that I LIVE on 24 footer...I was flattered.
Not surprised, flattered ! Felt a bit more worthwhile.
Hope to God the floodgates of discourse aren't about to open.
I'd have loved to have answered your question less honestly but it just isn't in me.
Thanks again DOCKIE.
LARA.
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Old 08-01-2016, 11:44   #47
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Re: Ideal Generator?

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Originally Posted by brianlara 3 View Post
I'm reluctant to answer your question honestly "D"....but I will.
I am very new here and being brutally frank, putting myself on show....
I suspect that there is a strata factor to me and what I say. People on tiny boats, I think, tend to be dismissed, be given short shrift, assumed uneducated .....er, drop-outs/failures.
Certainly, 6 years on the hook in Oz has proven, unequivocally, that people in respectably sized boats are dismissive of me. Cant speak for others, but I'm disappointed by the ethos that "bigger is better".
Snobbery amongst many of the 'haves' is to me a glaring failure of respect/decency.
"D", because of your experience/status/respectability and the fact that I LIVE on 24 footer...I was flattered.
Not surprised, flattered ! Felt a bit more worthwhile.
Hope to God the floodgates of discourse aren't about to open.
I'd have loved to have answered your question less honestly but it just isn't in me.
Thanks again DOCKIE.
LARA.
Well, I donít know what kind of people you meet out here in your waters, but I donít know anyone on CF who judges others by the size of their boats. Donít give yourself an inferiority complex. All people here care about is how knowledgeable, helpful, pleasant, and/or entertaining you are. You'll be shunned on here for being rude or ignorant, no matter what size boat you have.


I have a good friend who has a 60 meter (200 foot) motor yacht. Thatís a bigger difference in size to my boat, than mine is from the tiniest boat on here, but I certainly donít let it psyche me out. By the way, he bought it cheap off an Australian billionaire Ė or rather, ex-billionaire, now bankrupt. Sometimes the ďhavesĒ suddenly arenít, any more, quite suddenly.
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Old 08-01-2016, 12:36   #48
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Re: Ideal Generator?

Dockhead,

You do understand there are 'simpler' designs in low speed AC gensets that don't require exotic tools/technicians for repair.

I have a Mase 7.6kw (current model is 8.1) that is an off-the-shelf marinated Yanmar 3TNE engine and a Mecc Alte backend with capacitor controlled voltage regulation. Hence, I buy engine parts from any Yanmar dealer. The capacitor controlled VR costs a whopping $20 to replace the whole system.

As far as Mase proprietary, I can carry a spare intercooler, heat exchanger, and exhaust elbow from Mase for ~$500. Mase runs the intercooler as an air-air heat exchanger to keep the case cool, it saves having blowers in space where the genset resides.

There is a trade off with capacitor VR vs. AVR. AVR holds voltage to ~5% whereas capacitor VR is ~10%. When the no-load voltage is too low, I know that 1 or both of the capacitors have crapped out and change them. These are readily available everywhere as they are simply motor run capacitors used on all kinds of appliances. I carry 2-4 spares just in case.
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Old 08-01-2016, 12:40   #49
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Re: Ideal Generator?

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Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
Dockhead,

You do understand there are 'simpler' designs in low speed AC gensets that don't require exotic tools/technicians for repair.

I have a Mase 7.6kw (current model is 8.1) that is an off-the-shelf marinated Yanmar 3TNE engine and a Mecc Alte backend with capacitor controlled voltage regulation. Hence, I buy engine parts from any Yanmar dealer. The capacitor controlled VR costs a whopping $20 to replace the whole system.

As far as Mase proprietary, I can carry a spare intercooler, heat exchanger, and exhaust elbow from Mase for ~$500. Mase runs the intercooler as an air-air heat exchanger to keep the case cool, it saves having blowers in space where the genset resides.

There is a trade off with capacitor VR vs. AVR. AVR holds voltage to ~5% whereas capacitor VR is ~10%. When the no-load voltage is too low, I know that 1 or both of the capacitors have crapped out and change them. These are readily available everywhere as they are simply motor run capacitors used on all kinds of appliances. I carry 2-4 spares just in case.
Thanks; that actually sounds very interesting. I will look into that.

As I said, I'm indifferent about AC versus DC. I love my Kohler EFOZ which has given me terrific service. My Kohler has the same diesel engine as your MASE. But it has a proprietary controller with PCB's and all kinds of other proprietary carp which would stop you dead if it failed in a remote area -- the only reason why I wouldn't use the same generator on my next boat.
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Old 08-01-2016, 13:03   #50
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Re: Ideal Generator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ka4wja View Post
To sum up....in all honesty, for a "high-latitude adventure cruising boat", I'd opt for two things above all else:
a) Simplicity / KISS
b) Reliability

And, in my opinion, that means as much solar as you can fit, wind gens if you can stand the noise and will be in areas with enough wind...and if you need additional energy, an "old-school" low-rpm diesel genset (hopefully using a decent marine diesel).... John
Dockhead, have read David Scott Cowper's adventures with the North West Passage? I will have a look over the weekend to see if I still have my copy but a fascinating read even if it is a motor yacht, well old British lifeboat actually. His ability to fix stuff was down to a very simple set up. Took him around the world a couple of times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Scott_Cowper

Your next engine to build the boat around. The engine will be around long after we are gone.

http://www.gardnermarine.com/standard-engines/
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Old 09-01-2016, 15:03   #51
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Re: Ideal Generator?

Very interesting 3d, i'm looking for my new first expedion boat.

I see the main problem in the 30-40-50 ft range is keep the battery charged, run via an inverter 110 v ac or 220v ac some home appliance (like air conditioning, electric oven, washing machines, eccc)

Many if not everybody doesn't want to keep running the main engine, with little load for many hours, just for electric generation.

I see 3 differnt solution for the problem:

I already posted a 3d about a watercooled single cylinder diesel, chinise, 1 liter, 20 hp, 2300 rpm max, electric start, heavy duty engine (even chinese...) 750 usd fob china, to be coupled via a pulley and belt to a big 24 v alternator....

The pro of the watercooled is that it can be used for hot domestic water (with a thermostatic valve and keel cooling or air cooler to avoid overheating)

I also saw some italian made, diesel, high quality air cooled engine,electric start, a bit more expensive, about 0,5 liter, 9hp at 3600 rpm max (bad)...declared to work for 2.000 hours before a main overhaul is needed...

Get a ordinary 2-3 kw 110v 230 v ac genset, diesel, air cooled, electric start, and buy a 24 v 50 amp battery charger, or a ups inverter/battery charger like mastervolt,ecc

About the cooling (all the engine would be fitted in the engine room, so no noise or heat during summer), is it possible to add a metal box all around the air cooled's cylinder head (by welding), and get the same watercooling system for domestic water and thermostatic valve open when temperature reach the working temperature?


The idea is get the chinise for the semplicity to get watercooling already fitted and no problem with big outpout alternator (like 200 amp and so on...)

What do you think about all this?

P.s. on youtube there are many videos of chinese 24 v dc homemade genset...

P.s. 2 the gardner engine are great but they need to be runned at high load, i researched a lot about the best engine (3lw or 4 lw) but not enought powerfull when bad wheater come, so i choose a beta marine..the manual starting makes the garden a very big pro for remote area-electric problem....but cons they work at only 65 celsius, and it doesn't very usefull if used to produce hot domestic water, if not loaded the engine block dissipate all the heat...so no hot shower...
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Old 09-01-2016, 15:16   #52
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Re: Ideal Generator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefano_ita View Post
Very interesting 3d, i'm looking for my new first expedion boat.

I see the main problem in the 30-40-50 ft range is keep the battery charged, run via an inverter 110 v ac or 220v ac some home appliance (like air conditioning, electric oven, washing machines, eccc)

Many if not everybody doesn't want to keep running the main engine, with little load for many hours, just for electric generation.

I see 3 differnt solution for the problem:

I already posted a 3d about a watercooled single cylinder diesel, chinise, 1 liter, 20 hp, 2300 rpm max, electric start, heavy duty engine (even chinese...) 750 usd fob china, to be coupled via a pulley and belt to a big 24 v alternator....

The pro of the watercooled is that it can be used for hot domestic water (with a thermostatic valve and keel cooling or air cooler to avoid overheating)

I also saw some italian made, diesel, high quality air cooled engine,electric start, a bit more expensive, about 0,5 liter, 9hp at 3600 rpm max (bad)...declared to work for 2.000 hours before a main overhaul is needed...

Get a ordinary 2-3 kw 110v 230 v ac genset, diesel, air cooled, electric start, and buy a 24 v 50 amp battery charger.

About the cooling (all the engine would be fitted in the engine room, so no noise or heat during summer), is it possible to add a metal box all around the air cooled's cylinder head (by welding), and get the same watercooling system for domestic water and thermostatic valve open when temperature reach the working temperature?


The idea is get the chinise for the semplicity to get watercooling already fitted and no problem with big outpout alternator (like 200 amp and so on...)

What do you think about all this?


. . .


Well, no 1 cylinder, or air cooled, or Chinese, or homebuilt for me. My generator (whether it's a DC with school bus alternators, or a standard heavy duty AC generator, will be powered by a quality Japanese 3 cylinder diesel, or possibly by an American Lugger.
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Old 09-01-2016, 15:20   #53
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Re: Ideal Generator?

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Well, no 1 cylinder, or air cooled, or Chinese, or homebuilt for me. My generator (whether it's a DC with school bus alternators, or a standard heavy duty AC generator, will be powered by a quality Japanese 3 cylinder diesel, or possibly by an American Lugger.
Ok but that's 12.000 dollars genset on a 30-40-50.000 dollars worth boat...
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Old 09-01-2016, 15:21   #54
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Re: Ideal Generator?

Stefano, two things come to mind when I read your post.
1: High latitudes and cost cutting with Chinese, low cost rubbish is going to bring you undone maybe sooner than later.
2. HEAT YOUR SHOWER WATER WITH GAS !!! And save yourself a lot of problems.
IMHO.
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Old 09-01-2016, 15:28   #55
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Re: Ideal Generator?

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Originally Posted by brianlara 3 View Post
Stefano, two things come to mind when I read your post.
1: High latitudes and cost cutting with Chinese, low cost rubbish is going to bring you undone maybe sooner than later.
2. HEAT YOUR SHOWER WATER WITH GAS !!! And save yourself a lot of problems.
IMHO.
Thanks for the advice,

but how much should a gas (methane or lpg?) will last? Both around iceland or in the middle of nowhere in the pacific?
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Old 09-01-2016, 15:40   #56
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Re: Ideal Generator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Dockhead, have read David Scott Cowper's adventures with the North West Passage? I will have a look over the weekend to see if I still have my copy but a fascinating read even if it is a motor yacht, well old British lifeboat actually. His ability to fix stuff was down to a very simple set up. Took him around the world a couple of times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Scott_Cowper

Your next engine to build the boat around. The engine will be around long after we are gone.

Gardner Marine Diesel Engines - ¬Ľ Standard Engines
14 litre straight-eight, wow!! I have always loved these engines, and love the way they sound, too. But I think even the 6 weighs about a tonne, so for this particular boat, not an option.
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Old 09-01-2016, 15:41   #57
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Smile Re: Ideal Generator?

Stephano....carry 50 bottles of the stuff if you have to.
I have the smallest, on the hook, boat at CF....and I carry TWO 20 lb bottles!
Brother there are plenty more exp people here than me. If you like the Propane idea shop it around.
And, but I cant be sure, possibly SKIP NOVAK and others use gas for cooking/hot water. Might be wrong there.
Keep asking Steph.
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Old 09-01-2016, 15:43   #58
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Re: Ideal Generator?

Very few self respecting fishing boats in our Tasman Sea DONT run Gardiners.
They cant afford not to.
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Old 09-01-2016, 16:15   #59
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Re: Ideal Generator?

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Very few self respecting fishing boats in our Tasman Sea DONT run Gardiners.
They cant afford not to.
Mh...

reading some books, it sounds like, in the worst case that if the electric system is out and you are close to the rocks (obviously, it will never happen in a safe place during a sunny day) the ability to start the engine by hand is very needed stuff...

the 4lw is half ton, the double of a beta 60...but maybe, me too, for "easyness, like mainteniance, wiring, ecc" a prefere a "standard" engine.

Hope to do not make the wrong decision..
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Old 09-01-2016, 16:18   #60
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Re: Ideal Generator?

Stephano......one word to you brother, ...........j a p a n e s e ...........Capiche??
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