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Old 28-01-2012, 15:04   #1
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Thumbs up Ideal Electronics / Navigation Package Wish List if You Were Renewing

Based on the idea of totally re-newing your electronics package what would be the wish list?

Package cost? (self install)

What redundancy? Would you build in? (i.e. a handheld compatible GPS using same cards would back up the main GPS/PLOTTER if U/S and a separate fish-finder to cover depth?).

Redundancy should cover breakdowns lets leave the lightening issue aside..

Plotter.
GPS.
Depth.
Radar.
Autopilot.
HF Radio.
VHF Radio.
AIS.
Wind.
BUS/Interconnection.
Would like to have these suggestions as a back up just in case there becomes a need. Cheers all
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Old 28-01-2012, 16:10   #2
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Re: Ideal electronics/navigation package wish list if you were renewing?

in order of usefullness

Chartplotter
VHF Radio
Depth
Speed
Autopilot
AIS
Radar
Wind

Dave
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Old 28-01-2012, 20:10   #3
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Re: Ideal electronics/navigation package wish list if you were renewing?

We just finished a complete refit after a devastating lighting strike (don't think I was supposed to mention the L word). Here is what we went with:
1. N2K network backbone running from the top of the mast to the back of the arch and through both hulls - all Maretron parts and cabling. All instruments, receivers, transducers, sensors and outputs drop onto this backbone.
2. Backbone terminated at a Maretron ultrasonic wind/weather station at the top of the mast and a Maretron GPS receiver at the back of the arch.
3. Airmar depth and speed transducers
4. Simrad rate compass, autopilot computer, rudder feedback and control head. If I was to do it over, I think I might get the Maretron rate compass instead.
5. Raymarine type 2 linear drive
6. Furuno MFD8 multifunction display with DRS4D radome
7. three B&G Triton T41 multifunction displays (still to be released)
8. B&G Triton autopilot control pad (still to be released)
9. Maretron N2K-USB gateway
10. Standard Horizon GX2150 VHF with AIS receiver
11. Icom 710 SSB with Pactor 3 opened to Ham bands with dedicated coupler and antenna (not damaged)
12. Kenwood Ham radio opened to marine bands with dedicated coupler and antenna (radio damaged and being repaired/replaced)

For redundancy:
1.the autopilot can be controlled by the Simrad display, the three B&G displays and the B&G control head (if the B&G gear was available at the time, I would not have bought the Simrad control display).
2. All depth, speed, wind and gps is redundant through all 5 displays (Simrad, B&G, Furuno).
3. Of course, all data is available to the computer running charting software and the computer can also control the autopilot.
4. AIS data is available on the Furuno MFD, the VHF display and the computer. I suspect that it may be available on the B&G displays in the future.
5. There are 3 computers on board that can control everything independently of the rest of the system
6. We have a handheld VHF and numerous handheld and hockey puck GPS's
7. Handheld depth sounder
8. Hand held wind meter
9. two electronic and two mechanical hand held compasses
10. Paper charts for everywhere we travel along with hand navigation tools and the knowledge to use them.
11. The HF radios are redundant to themselves.
12. There is no backup radome. We could have a backup radar display by purchasing Maxsea software for the computer.

I haven't totaled the cost for just these items (as opposed to all the stuff damaged), but let's say ~$15-20,000 - not including the HF gear, PC's and handheld stuff that made it out OK.

It was all self installed. Outside installation costs will be at least as much as the equipment itself.

Mark
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Old 28-01-2012, 20:15   #4
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Re: Ideal electronics/navigation package wish list if you were renewing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
in order of usefullness

Chartplotter
VHF Radio
Depth
Speed
Autopilot
AIS
Radar
Wind

Dave
This, of course, is going to be a personal preference and maybe related to the kind of sailing one is doing, but my order would be:

GPS (you didn't list this)
Autopilot
Depth
VHF
AIS
Radar
Chartplotter
Wind
Speed

Mark
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Old 28-01-2012, 20:19   #5
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Re: Ideal electronics/navigation package wish list if you were renewing?

Never been interested in the fancy electronics. On my own boat I have two handheld GPS receivers, a radar (used in restricted visibility), depth sounder, knot meter, wireless wind indicator, SSB/HF, and a handheld and fixed VHF. I like doing the navigation on paper and with hand tools; keeps me sharp.

Nothing is integrated; just individual systems with their own readouts. Not sure if I'd like anything else. Maybe satellite Internet if someone else wants to pay the bill.
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Old 28-01-2012, 21:17   #6
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Re: Ideal electronics/navigation package wish list if you were renewing?

G'day, mate. I like Goboatingnow's list with the exception of speed. Got tired of cleaning the paddle, pulled it out 5 years ago and have left it out. So I can't tell you what the current is doing, but have a pretty good clue based on the speed over ground anyway.

The question for me today would be if I would replace our radar if it failed. With the advent of the chartplotter and AIS sailing in mostly fog free waters, I probably would not.

I'm not one for totally intergrated systems, especially when the various companies no longer support them or go out of business.

Something to keep in mind, we all take for granted that we can always get a lat/long from our GPS, that may not be the case one day, especially if our various governments can't pay their bills. P.S. Not ditching the sextant and almanac calculator anytime soon. Cheers.
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Old 28-01-2012, 21:34   #7
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Re: Ideal electronics/navigation package wish list if you were renewing?

Agree totally i believe a mechanical log with impellor like the old VDO's OR B&G along with doing noon-sights and DR on paper, liquid compass is a given for safe seamanship.

All the rest is taking advantage of our technology available which we all can do as we wish. I love the technology, i tend towards favouring stand alone gear but want to understand/investigate more about Marks advice. A line drawing is the go?

Even coastal using my plotter etc i still pencil onto my chart....habit!
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Old 28-01-2012, 22:11   #8
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Re: Ideal electronics/navigation package wish list if you were renewing?

Yes, lifestyle choice...

What's not on your list, but what I would do with an "extra $20k" that I did not know what to do with, well before I pimped out the electronics:

- A completely over the top enormous windlass, like a Lighthouse or something
- A super fancy MOB transponder/direction finding system
- An absolutely ridiculous automatic starting diesel de-watering pump
- Chainplates on the hull for a series drogue
- Forward scanning depth system, for reef passes or poking around atolls
- Add winches: wherever there is currently a line stopper, just add a dedicated winch for whatever the line is. What luxury!
- A custom lifting outboard bracket on the stern, to use the dinghy outboard to come into a tight harbor when the engine goes out
- A suitcase minisub (the kind for inspecting piers and etc), to check on the anchor, mooring, or just see what kind of sealife is down there
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Old 28-01-2012, 22:27   #9
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Re: Ideal electronics/navigation package wish list if you were renewing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by msponer View Post
Yes, lifestyle choice...

What's not on your list, but what I would do with an "extra $20k" that I did not know what to do with, well before I pimped out the electronics:

- A completely over the top enormous windlass, like a Lighthouse or something
- A super fancy MOB transponder/direction finding system
- An absolutely ridiculous automatic starting diesel de-watering pump
- Chainplates on the hull for a series drogue
- Forward scanning depth system, for reef passes or poking around atolls
- Add winches: wherever there is currently a line stopper, just add a dedicated winch for whatever the line is. What luxury!
- A custom lifting outboard bracket on the stern, to use the dinghy outboard to come into a tight harbor when the engine goes out
- A suitcase minisub (the kind for inspecting piers and etc), to check on the anchor, mooring, or just see what kind of sealife is down there
Yes i erred and did not include your items however this was a 'WISH LIST' on electronics? Colemj answered it in the spirit of the question. I don't see any reference in the question nor in his answer to spending an extra 20k as if it was there to be wasted?

Maybe you should start a thread concerning your list of how to use a lazy 20k? Would be fun......
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Old 28-01-2012, 22:47   #10
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Re: Ideal electronics/navigation package wish list if you were renewing?

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to come across as negative, judgmental, or drifting your thread. That's the problem with the written word, setting the tone right.

But I take exception to your thought that a "suitcase minisub" and "MOB direction finder" and "forward scanning depth sounder" is not electronics and fundamentally off topic in an electronics wish list.
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Old 28-01-2012, 23:11   #11
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Re: Ideal electronics/navigation package wish list if you were renewing?

LMAO I just can't concede the suitcase sub!!!!!
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Old 29-01-2012, 00:01   #12
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Re: Ideal electronics/navigation package wish list if you were renewing?

Dude, for about the cost of a nice chartplotter your minisub can do a predeparture hull sweep or anchor inspection... I think it's clear, experienced seamen know that suitcase subs are absolutely critical and not at all toys like infrared scopes or night vision cameras.

VideoRay ROVs - Yachting, Sport, and Recreation - YouTube
http://www.videoray.com/products/6-scout
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Old 29-01-2012, 00:19   #13
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Re: Ideal electronics/navigation package wish list if you were renewing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by msponer View Post
Dude, for about the cost of a nice chartplotter your minisub can do a predeparture hull sweep or anchor inspection... I think it's clear, experienced seamen know that suitcase subs are absolutely critical and not at all toys like infrared scopes or night vision cameras.

VideoRay ROVs - Yachting, Sport, and Recreation - YouTube
VideoRay ROVs

Time to send the clearance diver to do the hull inspection before a passage. You do have one on board don't you. I my case i am it.

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Old 29-01-2012, 05:32   #14
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Re: Ideal electronics/navigation package wish list if you were renewing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
in order of usefullness

Chartplotter
VHF Radio
Depth
Speed
Autopilot
AIS
Radar
Wind

Dave
Being from the NW

First I quite like to have My Wife

Next a VHF

2. next is a DS

3. then a Radar

4. a speed wheel in my transducer for the DS

Now for comfort I quite like a

1 Chart Plotter

2. Wind speed indicator

3. Stero.


Thank god i got my wife first, bc she cooks good, yet to mention shes a good sight for my eyes.

Now mind ya we only go between Seattle and Alaska.

hehe
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Old 29-01-2012, 07:12   #15
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Re: Ideal electronics/navigation package wish list if you were renewing?

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Originally Posted by matauwhi View Post
I'm not one for totally intergrated systems, especially when the various companies no longer support them or go out of business.
Integration got argued into silliness on another thread, and I have become to believe it is because people have different meanings of the term.

I think what you are calling a "totally integrated system" is actually what I would call a "stand alone system".

In other words, for what I think is your interpretation of integrated, some of your sensors and controls may be connected together, but they are solidly locked together by a single manufacturer. You are unable to remove any part or replace with one from another manufacturer. Even upgrading often requires pulling the whole thing out and starting over. And support for older systems is non-existant. So the "integration" is actually an arbitrary locking together of components into a single, boat-wide stand alone system. These types of systems are not future-proof and a bad component will usually leave you stranded.

In my interpretation of integrated, every single component in the system, from the depth transducer to the GPS antenna to the bilge pump alarm, is an independent entity that performs its duty and puts its data onto a single cable network connecting all other components. All data on the network can be accessed by all components and brought out to other components like a computer.

Since every component is self-contained and the network is the means of integration, replacing a damaged component or upgrading a component or adding an additional component with new functionality is as easy as unplugging the single drop cable and plugging in the new component. And you can use components from any manufacturer you wish. This type of system is completely future-proof.

Most importantly, this type of system provides a high level of redundancy because all of the data are available to all of the components. In Rebel Heart's stand alone argument, if his depth sounder display goes bad, he has no depth sounder. And this is true for everything in his system.

In an integrated system like I describe, all data are available all the time, so if one display goes down, you simply call up the data on another display. To be specific, if my "depth display" (this doesn't actually exist as such on a system like I describe) goes down, I simply put the data on the autopilot display. Or the wind display. Or the chartplotter. Or the radar. Or the AIS display. Or the GPS display. And of course, the computer.

Same with the wind direction and speed, AIS, autopilot control, speed through water, GPS position, speed over ground, course over ground, compass heading, etc. - All of these data can be viewed and controlled by all other parts of the system should any one (or two or three or four) happen to fail.

In fact, the output of the radome is the only thing in this type of system that has no redundancy - although one could run it off the computer with proper software.

Many of the transducers and receivers themselves are also non-redundant, but because they are not tied into a package, replacing them is much less expensive, far easier and future-proof. And they can be installed as redundant systems from the start if you like. You can put two depth/speed/temp combo transducers in the two old separate thruhulls from your previous system and two GPS antennas at the ready also. These data will be redundant on the network and always available for instant failover. This can't be done with packaged systems.

And did I mention that you can use any components you like from any manufacturer? So find a chartplotter you really like and install the autopilot you really like and get the displays that your wife thinks are the cutest, and finally break yourself free from the whirlybird wind and speed transducers and get ultrasonic ones - and then thumb your nose at Garmin or Raymarine or whoever when they try to sell you a full boat load of single sourced gear of which only a couple of components you actually prefer.

Mark
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