I need Generator Help

[Rocketman]

I just got a Faryman 1 cyl. 230v-50 htz gererator for free, I spent most of the day cleaning it up and getting it running. It runs great. Now that I have it running I am wanting to know if I will be able to use it. Can I split the 230 Volts into 110V? I don't have a lot of experince with gererators, but what is the problem if I run 2 110V runs instead of the single 220?

[bobconnie]

50 c not 60 c ? I don't know enough to really help but im sure the folks from countrys that use 50c power will know if ya can even use it without a major job on your wireing in a US boat that use's 60 c power!! someone will get to ya soon Im sure

[Dsanduril]

Depends on whether or not your generator has what is called a "center tap". Some do, some don't. I would suspect that a 230V/50Hz generator (which indicates designed for European use) probably doesn't, but impossible to tell without more information.

How many wires are there on the output side, and how are they labeled? Common labeling is U1, U2.... or W1, W2... If you only have two wires (plus possibly a ground) then it is unlikely there is a center tap. If you have 4 or more wires then there are likely several options for wiring that might do what you want.

Another option is to put in a small transformer. Stepping down 220 to 110 is really easy and not that expensive.

The big question is what are you planning to run on it? 110V tends to indicate North American equipment (or Japanese). North American equipment is designed for 60Hz, and you indicate your generator is 50Hz. Some equipment (incandescent lighting, resistive heaters) will be fine with this, some equipment may be designed to run motors at either frequency, and some equipment will be unhappy and not run.

One other option may be to re-adjust the governor on the engine to output 60Hz (adjusting governor from 3000RPM to 3600RPM [looks like those are the Farymann speeds]). If the generator head and engine are both suitable you can change the output frequency.

[skipmac]

Dsanduril pretty much covered it. Unless you can change the voltage (not too difficult but high power transformers aren't cheap) and frequency (could be a lot more difficult) you will be very limited in what you can power with this generator.

European 230V isn't like US 220-240 where you have two hot 110V wires and one neutral wire. Unless the generator has the center tap you would have to use a step down transformer.

Running the engine at a higher rpm, if you can do it could solve the frequency problem. Otherwise very expensive to change the frequency.

One other idea, hook the generator to a really big battery charger, most good ones will run on 230V 50Hz, and then use the DC to run a big inverter. Not the most efficient way to do it but you got a free generator.

[Dsanduril]

Take a look at this, let us know if this is your generator:

http://set-zeise.de/UserFiles/File/M...2006%20eng.pdf

If it is I don't see anything on the wiring diagrams that looks like the center tap, so you're stuck with a transformer (or the battery charger/inverter approach as mentioned by SkipMac) if you want 110.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by skipmac

One other idea, hook the generator to a really big battery charger, most good ones will run on 230V 50Hz, and then use the DC to run a big inverter. Not the most efficient way to do it but you got a free generator.

Exactly

It's plenty efficient. Go for it.

[Rocketman]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Take a look at this, let us know if this is your generator:

http://set-zeise.de/UserFiles/File/M...2006%20eng.pdf

If it is I don't see anything on the wiring diagrams that looks like the center tap, so you're stuck with a transformer (or the battery charger/inverter approach as mentioned by SkipMac) if you want 110.

Thanks to everyone for your help, I have looked at the Gen set a little closer and the power plug in has 3 wires going to it, a Blue, a Brown and a White/Green wire. The plug itself is round, something I have never seen before. Right now, I am thinking that I will probably not use it on the boat, as I don't have a good spot to but it unless I can convert it to something usable. I do understand the concept of using a charger, and an inverter, and I think that is probably the best way to go if I were to use this Gen. If anyone has a burning desire to have this Gen/set, let me know, I would love to trade it for maybe a portable one.

[Rocketman]

Here are some pic's.

[Sailmonkey]

open up the panel on the top of the actual generator itself and see if there are several wires coming out, some tied together. If so, you may be able to convert this to a 110/220 volt machine.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

open up the panel on the top of the actual generator itself and see if there are several wires coming out, some tied together. If so, you may be able to convert this to a 110/220 volt machine.

If it came from a boat built and sailed in Europe, then you will not be able to convert it. The power is single phase 230 volts.

The plug is a standard European 16 amp shore power connection, so I reckon that's what it is.

I would love to have it as a spare, but I'm afraid the shipping would cost more than it's worth

It's perfectly well suited to feeding your batteries through a good charger/inverter. That's what I would do with it

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

If it came from a boat built and sailed in Europe, then you will not be able to convert it. The power is single phase 230 volts.

right you are...I was having a brain fart. The windings are completely different

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

If it came from a boat built and sailed in Europe, then you will not be able to convert it. The power is single phase 230 volts.

In the OP's case dead, done, and buried. In the interest of anyone else who comes across this thread...

Yes (generally) in the case of generators built and sold in Europe. However, many (some, most?) generators of Asian heritage sold in the European market do have a center-tapped winding. They look identical on the outside to the pictures posted by the OP, but have internal tap connections that can be used to change voltage. This is a consequence of global markets and manufacturers wanting to have universal designs. Adding a center tap costs a couple of cents and allows the core generation component to be used in multiple markets rather than having to build multiple types/styles.

Changing the voltage output (actually, connecting to the center tap to only use 1/2 the voltage) on generators with a center tapped winding is trivial. Changing the frequency is another thing entirely. Again many (some, most?) of the engines are designed to run at either 1500/3000RPM or 1800/3600RPM and all that is required is a tweak to the governor. Depending on the generator the capacitor bank and/or control board may be slightly different for 50 vs. 60 Hz. Overall this task is not as trivial, but may be possible.

In some cases it can been done (has been done), but it does depend on the method of manufacture of the base equipment.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

In the OP's case dead, done, and buried. In the interest of anyone else who comes across this thread...

Yes (generally) in the case of generators built and sold in Europe. However, many (some, most?) generators of Asian heritage sold in the European market do have a center-tapped winding. They look identical on the outside to the pictures posted by the OP, but have internal tap connections that can be used to change voltage. This is a consequence of global markets and manufacturers wanting to have universal designs. Adding a center tap costs a couple of cents and allows the core generation component to be used in multiple markets rather than having to build multiple types/styles.

Changing the voltage output (actually, connecting to the center tap to only use 1/2 the voltage) on generators with a center tapped winding is trivial. Changing the frequency is another thing entirely. Again many (some, most?) of the engines are designed to run at either 1500/3000RPM or 1800/3600RPM and all that is required is a tweak to the governor. Depending on the generator the capacitor bank and/or control board may be slightly different for 50 vs. 60 Hz. Overall this task is not as trivial, but may be possible.

In some cases it can been done (has been done), but it does depend on the method of manufacture of the base equipment.

But you can only center tap a three-phase circuit. Not a single phase circuit.

If these generators have convertible voltage, then they must have a second set of windings? I am having difficulty imagining how they would do that.

Or if I don't understand something, I would be grateful to be educated.

[Sailmonkey]

I was having the same problem understanding the post. If you center tap a European 220 generator, don't you effectively de-rate the output by 50% by removing 1/2 of the winding?

[Dsanduril]

I was having the same problem understanding the post. If you center tap a European 220 generator, don't you effectively de-rate the output by 50% by removing 1/2 of the winding?

Yes/no/maybe. Depends on how the center-tap is constructed.

Dual-winding style connection:


True center-tapped connection:


Delivered in Europe connections to U1 and U2 would be provided and you get 230V and full generator power. In the dual-winding case U3 is jumpered internally to U4, in the true center-tap case the center tap is just capped off and not available.

Delivered in the US the center-tap case gives you half power between U1 and the center-tap and another half-power circuit between U2 and the center-tap. The center-tap is used as neutral. You get full power from the generator, but the maximum power per circuit is one-half total output (which means if you have a 3kW generator running a single 2.5kW load it just won't fly)

In the dual-winding case you can connect U3-U4 as in Europe and get a 120V/240V dual voltage unit (by connecting your load to U1 and U2 you get 240V, by connecting to U1 and U3/U4 or U2 to U3/U4 you get 120V at half-power). You can also connect U1-U4 and U2-U3 and get a single full power 120V circuit.

The "dual-winding" doesn't have to denote two physically separate windings (in a small generator it generally doesn't, in a large it may), just a break in the winding where the tap(s) come out. IME I see lots of generator heads with the "dual-winding" tap because it really doesn't cost much to build it that way, and allows the most flexibility in distribution.