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Old 04-07-2014, 12:02   #16
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Re: Hydromax 150 fuel cell charger

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Originally Posted by sparrowhawk1 View Post
The YouTube video has it at 54 decibels
Well doh! Obviously I didn't watch the video.

Not exactly earsplitting but certainly not silent. So much for that.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:19   #17
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Re: Hydromax 150 fuel cell charger

Looked at a video of the Efoy fuel cell. Could not find a noise level spec but in the demo video it was not audible at all. Also just looks like a more finished product than the Hydromax. D

ownside, the Efoy runs on methanol. Still not certain exactly what it is that powers the Hydromax.
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:38   #18
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Re: Hydromax 150 fuel cell charger

Dealer says system generates 3,5 kWh on one 5 liter canister Hydrofuel in combination with one 5 liter canister 'apple acid'.
5 liter canister Hydrofuel costs 57 Euro, and 5 liter canister 'apple acid' costs 12 Euro. That makes 54 Wh/euro
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Old 05-07-2014, 14:44   #19
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Re: Hydromax 150 fuel cell charger

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Originally Posted by Vronsky View Post
Dealer says system generates 3,5 kWh on one 5 liter canister Hydrofuel in combination with one 5 liter canister 'apple acid'.
5 liter canister Hydrofuel costs 57 Euro, and 5 liter canister 'apple acid' costs 12 Euro. That makes 54 Wh/euro
Or over here about 3.3 Amp hours per USD$ or $0.30/Amp hour. Quite a bit more expensive than a Honda at $0.01/amp hour.

So initial cost is 4-5 times more than a Honda EU2000 and the charge to the batteries about 30 times more expensive per amp hour.

Seems like very nice technology but certainly not cheap.
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Old 05-07-2014, 17:15   #20
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Re: Hydromax 150 fuel cell charger

So, I'm still confused: what is the energy source? What is "Hydrofuel"? Seems likely that it is some liquid hydrocarbon... something like alcohol or diesel fuel.

Perhaps some more fine tuning of the technology, or detuning of the profit margin is required before this system becomes attractive for the average cruiser.

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Old 05-07-2014, 20:12   #21
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Re: Hydromax 150 fuel cell charger

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So, I'm still confused: what is the energy source? What is "Hydrofuel"? Seems likely that it is some liquid hydrocarbon... something like alcohol or diesel fuel.

Perhaps some more fine tuning of the technology, or detuning of the profit margin is required before this system becomes attractive for the average cruiser.

Jim
Confused as well. The web site calls the fuel a "salt" but obviously not table salt IE sodium chloride. Chemically a salt is a broad class of chemicals, ionic compounds that are produced by reacting an acid and a base. They could be organic salts or inorganic salts. The website mentions that dissolving whatever salt they use in water is exothermic (produces heat) so not table salt which does not react this way.

A fuel cell, somewhat like a battery, produces electricity from a chemical reaction. The difference is a fuel cell needs a supply of fuel, most commonly methanol or methane. Do not know the exact method but as I recall, the methane or methanol somehow contributes hydrogen that reacts with oxygen to produce the electricity.

So if the Hydromax is using some kind of salt as fuel it is obviously a very different reaction than the typical fuel cell.
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Old 06-07-2014, 09:44   #22
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Re: Hydromax 150 fuel cell charger

Its a PEM..according to the department of energy.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogen...ket_report.pdf

Proton exchange membrane fuel cell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The HYDROMAX 150 combines two different water-based solutions to make its “fuel” inside the system.
HydroFuel is a proprietary, non-flammable water-based solution containing sodium borohydride. It generates
hydrogen inside the HYDROMAX by combining with HydroActivator, another water-based solution.
Hydrogen is produced on demand, and consumed immediately by the internal Fuel Cell."
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Old 06-07-2014, 16:08   #23
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Re: Hydromax 150 fuel cell charger

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Originally Posted by zboss View Post
Its a PEM..according to the department of energy.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogen...ket_report.pdf

Proton exchange membrane fuel cell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The HYDROMAX 150 combines two different water-based solutions to make its “fuel” inside the system.
HydroFuel is a proprietary, non-flammable water-based solution containing sodium borohydride. It generates
hydrogen inside the HYDROMAX by combining with HydroActivator, another water-based solution.
Hydrogen is produced on demand, and consumed immediately by the internal Fuel Cell."
Well, that is very interesting, very clever, and not very appealing for a cruising yacht!

Jim
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Old 06-07-2014, 21:14   #24
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Re: Hydromax 150 fuel cell charger

That DOE paper is actually a very interesting read... they are looking to get to $30 per kW by 2017... which means that we won't be seeing anything even close to the honda generator per kW any time soon.

Also interesting was the lack of investment by China into fuel cell technology, being that they own most of the metals needed to produce them, you would think it would be very easy for them to develop cheap fuel cell technology based on just todays technology.
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Old 19-09-2014, 14:25   #25
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Smile Re: Hydromax 150 fuel cell charger

No it's not 'salt'. After some research I think it is Sodium Borohydride. It gives up some energy when mixed with water (hence the heating) but when combined with malic acid it releases a lot of hydrogen in a controlled way. I suspect the Sodium Borohydride is stabalized with Sodium Hydroxide for storage etc. Malic acid is very cheap (it is used in foodstuffs). Sodium Borohydride is made in industrial quantities but I have no idea how expensive it is - probably not much. The main advantage of this approach is that it removes the need to use expensive metal catalysts i.e. use malic acid instead...but by the time they package it etc you are back in printer toner cartridge time. I will keep you posted but I am going to buy on of these puppies and see if I can get it fed on the cheap
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