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Old 10-02-2011, 20:09   #61
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OK! You guys are hilarious!

Once again, the point of the thread was a viable means to be self-sufficient. I understand that I brought up hydrogen generation out of ignorance. I am a boat-builder, not an engineer/physicist.

This has been touched on by a couple and I do greatly appreciate those who see where I am going.

Yes, sailing is the most desireable means of motivation in this vein.

How about cooking, heating and hot water?

Not everyone lives in the tropics! Right now it is 32F where I live. I plan to cruise to Chile where my parents have lived for 30 years and I own property in Patagonia.

The 200 gallons of diesel and 25 gallons of propane will not last forever. What if resources become extremely expensive as is being forecast?

Bill stated wood. Sound like a good possibility. Maybe I was being a little over-tech with the hydrogen generator.

Just trying to solve a dilema that has been haunting me.
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Old 10-02-2011, 20:22   #62
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Don't give up on beer cans yet! I think I remember they threw em in that DeLorean in Back to the Future too !

Edit: or was it that gyrocopter in Mad Max?

ciao!
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Old 10-02-2011, 20:23   #63
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now you are talking our language,the self sufficient sailor,can teach you how to cook rice and beans with out any fuel,and raw fish is pretty good.
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Old 10-02-2011, 21:52   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchman View Post
Once again, the point of the thread was a viable means to be self-sufficient. ...Yes, sailing is the most desireable means of motivation in this vein. ...How about cooking, heating and hot water? ...Not everyone lives in the tropics! Right now it is 32F where I live. I plan to cruise to Chile where my parents have lived for 30 years and I own property in Patagonia.

The 200 gallons of diesel and 25 gallons of propane will not last forever. What if resources become extremely expensive as is being forecast?

Bill stated wood. Sound like a good possibility. Maybe I was being a little over-tech with the hydrogen generator.

Just trying to solve a dilema that has been haunting me.
I hear what you are saying.

I sometimes think about those things myself and its seems certain that the more times tighten up, the less we can have our luxuries in the long run. On a sailing boat, "luxuries" we might ultimately need to do without in extended hard times include diesel fuel - and so our engines, electrical power to the extent that we don’t have a way to charge and eventually replace our batteries, mechanical devices like heads, pumps and so on to the extent that we cannot get or make parts when they wear out and break down, liquid and gas fueled devices like stoves and heaters to the extent we cannot get liquid fuel and gas, GPS to the extent we either cannot power or repair our units, or to the extent that the satellites are not kept functioning or available for civilian use. I'm sure that's just the tip or the iceberg.

Every few years I read _Sailing Alone Around the World_, by Joshua Slocum. The last couple times I read it, certain elements of his story having to do with the simplicity of his possessions and his lifestyle have struck me as a possible lesson.

It got me to thinking, is there some way I could make a wood stove for heat or cooking in my boat or home if need be? Not just a poor makeshift one, but a real functional piece of air-tight, properly vented, durable equipment? Maybe stowed in parts that could be assembled...

Do I have tools to get wood, cut it to length, split it, haul hundreds of pounds of it on "wood day", stow it and keep it dry? An axe may be better than nothing after the saw wears out, but two saws is good. Can you sharpen your saw, your axe? Do you have serious LBE (load bearing equipment - backpacks and so on) to carry food, water, and so on, for miles at a go if need be.

How about your water jugs? Are they durable? Cleanable? Numerous? Do you have many gallons of bleach on board for sanitizing water? Medical supplies for if you get sick or injured? Is your dinghy inflatable? Only a hard dinghy will survive very long in a hard world... A folding full-sized mountain bike and serious portable tool kit to support it can make travel on land for foraging, hunting, toting supplies far more effective...

The list is nearly endless, and gets longer if you actually try to live it. A new dimension creeps in as it becomes apparent that having the correct tools is not much good with out the skills and habits to use them effectively.

"Despite people who speak glibly of "earlier and simpler times," all that makes earlier times seem simpler is our ignorance of their complexities."
-- Thomas Sowell

You may wish to read Slocum yourself with this in mind, if you have not already. He had no engine, no electrical devices, no plumbing, and went ashore to chop wood for his heater and cooking stove on a regular basis in the high latitudes.

Truth be told, his most complex machinery was probably his sextant and his several firearms and plenty of ammo, and he would have been lost without them on his trip. To the extent that laws and society break down is the extent that one may wish to be able to access a well-stocked cache of this most natural of defensive and meat-getting tool type.

You can read Slocum here for free (public domain):

http://www.ibiblio.org/eldritch/js/saaw.htm

I'd be interested to hear of your progress in your quest for self-reliance.
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:00   #65
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Originally Posted by TheWatchman View Post
I have been considering constructing a hyrogen generator as a replacement for propane systems on my boat. Refer, stove/oven, hot water as well as augmenting the fuel in my Yanmar. I have some friends that have produced prototypes for their vehicles.

My concern is the burn heat of hydrogen as opposed to propane. I understand it is hotter. Will this melt the manifolds in typical burners?

I am familiar with the downside. Checkvalves and an outside generator with redundant safeguards are the beginnnings of my plan.

Anybody familiar with this? Or any scientists aboard?
If the goal is to unhinge oneself from the fossil fuel treadmill, I think your best shot would be alcohol distillation. You still have some real energy density issues, but it stores as a liquid, is easily used in existing appliances, and if all that fails, you can drink away your troubles

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Old 11-02-2011, 01:26   #66
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Don't give up on beer cans yet! I think I remember they threw em in that DeLorean in Back to the Future too !

Edit: or was it that gyrocopter in Mad Max?

ciao!
Nick.
I think it was the DeLorean...but no matter...they were both "most excelent" vehicles.

I vote with the alcohol crowd...easy to make (I'm guessing) with a solar still.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:52   #67
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morso squirrel stove

we have one of these,a morso multi fuel stove,gives out loads of heat,and with a back boiler coil it is possible to heat radiators and a calorifier for hot water.

not a very good photo but ya get the general idea.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:27   #68
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If you have wood at hand, here is a possible cooking solution: Rocket stove - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One thing to keep in mind is that regular boat stoves have as a purpose to work under way, not to be efficient, "green" or economical.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:13   #69
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why not try one of these,cheap and uses existing technology

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Old 11-02-2011, 05:56   #70
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hydrogen powered tinny dinghy

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Old 11-02-2011, 06:09   #71
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hydrogen sailboat

where do they sleep?

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Old 11-02-2011, 06:43   #72
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Well, there you go.. 700 liters of hydrogen in tanks at 125 psi aboard a sailboat, used for propulsion, no explosions.

Never say never :-)

ciao!
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Old 18-02-2011, 22:38   #73
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Whimsy and Atoll

Whimsy,

I have read and hold Slocum's books very close to me. Have an extensive library on board of classic sailors advice. Appreciate the input. I agree that simple is better, and have evolved my vessel to accomodate both modern as well as ancient methods as redundant systems. This would include tarps with leads to water tanks, candles as well as oil lighting, manual as well as electric windlass, autopilot as well as wind vane, gps/chart plotters as well as sextant and 229 and eternal almanacs, diesel as well as electric heating, propane as well as electric and BBQ/wood cooking, 300lbs of dried storage as well as canned goods and dehydrated foodstores, manual as well as electric plumbing, etc, etc,.....

I do and would appreciate any additional input I have not considered.

Atoll,

You are a wealth of interesting information. How do you cook beans and rice without wood or fuel? If you will recall, I want to transit both tropical and extreme regions. So, I do not believe solar cooking is a viable alternative for above 40 degree lattitudes. Yes, I have a microwave. School me!
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Old 18-02-2011, 23:09   #74
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rice n beans(lentils).with out cooking on a stove,though you will need 3cups boiling water for best results.

take pressure cooker(best) or pot with lid that closes reasonably well.

1cup rice 1/2 cup brown lentils 1/2 tsp salt in pot add boiling water,wrap in cloth ,then in a down or good quality sleeping bag,leave for 1 hour.

prepare fish in slices,add salt ,pepper, lemon juice or vinager and olive oil,garlick,let marinade till rice n beans ready.

if no hot water available same as above but climb into sleeping bag with pot,sleep for 6 hours,eat fish rice and beans for breakfast.
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Old 18-02-2011, 23:47   #75
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Right On!

So, do you place the pot in front or in back of you?

Seriously, I'll have to experiment with that. Thank you!

If I could keep a lemon tree growing I could cook with citrus juice. Hydroponics?

Wow, thats interesting, from hydrogen to hydroponics.

OK, Its past my bedtime.

Talk tomorrow.
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