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Old 11-03-2013, 08:10   #61
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Re: How to crimp little, tiny wires

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Originally Posted by The Garbone View Post
Those do not really look like small wires we are discussing and that really is not a 3m scotchlock.

Here is a photo,

The one on the right is a Tyco industries 2 wire filled connector (one is opened up in the center to display the gell) the left on is a 3M scotchlock. They are also available in 3 way and bridge versions. (the blue thing above is a cheap unfilled autoparts store bridge type). It will specify the guage of wire they are suitable for use on on the box when you get them and you will have failures if you go outside of specifications.

Where I work we use them on 22awg and 18awg power pairs for remote terminals running at about 1amp 130vdc. I have never seen a properly crimped connector fail. I have seen the wire harnesses fail where moisture has penetrated a wires insulation and and electrolisis has burn it open, but not once at the beans.

You can get them on Amazon.

For larger wires I like the crimps with heat shrink myself, not a fan of bridging, I prefer a teminal strip or better yet temination on a fuse panel.

The one on the left is known as a Jelly Crimp and is used by BT for external
joins . They come in different varieties depending on how many wires you are joining . Just insert the unstripped wires in and squeeze without using pliers as that can damage the part inside that grabks the wire . You can get these on ebay .
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Old 11-03-2013, 08:23   #62
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Re: How to Crimp Little, Tiny Wires

Gary-
"A standard RJ45 data jack uses stranded wire in a" Every wire I've ever met in an RJ-series connection, telco or ethernet, has been a solid "telco" wire. Where are you seeing stranded wire in that application?

Lloyd raises a good point inthat stranded and solid are different with different problems, but somehow, I missed all the memos about specialty connectors for stranded wires. Never met a connector for miniature stranded wires, much less heard of one.
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Old 11-03-2013, 08:49   #63
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Re: How to Crimp Little, Tiny Wires

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Gary-
"A standard RJ45 data jack uses stranded wire in a" Every wire I've ever met in an RJ-series connection, telco or ethernet, has been a solid "telco" wire. Where are you seeing stranded wire in that application?

Lloyd raises a good point inthat stranded and solid are different with different problems, but somehow, I missed all the memos about specialty connectors for stranded wires. Never met a connector for miniature stranded wires, much less heard of one.
Solid Cat5 or 6 wire is recommended for network cables running to jack points ...stranded is suggested for jack points to computers as it is more flexible ..
Some RJ45 connectors can be used for solid + stranded and others only for stranded .
Computer Networking FAQ #14 - Which Cable is Better, Solid or Stranded?
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Old 12-03-2013, 00:03   #64
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Re: How to Crimp Little, Tiny Wires

[QUOTE=StuBu;1181936]Solid Cat5 or 6 wire is recommended for network cables running to jack points ...stranded is suggested for jack points to computers as it is more flexible ..
Some RJ45 connectors can be used for solid + stranded and others only for stranded .
Computer Networking FAQ #14 - Which Cable is Better, Solid or Stranded?[/QUOTE

I said it early .

The right product, and tool for the job.

It makes little "cents" to do it otherwise.

Cheap, get's it done for as little pennies as you can.

Frugal, gets it done fore the best price, without forgiving penny's

Think long term, not short costs.

It's cheaper X 4sqrd, to do it right onetime, then to do it twice.

L
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Old 12-03-2013, 01:04   #65
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Re: How to crimp little, tiny wires

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I generally go the fold over route (and it works fine) but...

If you want to join a really small wire to a 14-18 butt splice, you can get an electrical wire ferrule and crimper (McMaster-Carr) for the really small wires. Crimp a ferrule onto the wire, then put that into the larger butt splice. They're really made for landing on terminal blocks, etc, but also do a good job of increasing the wire diameter. Of course, yet another tool to own
I do this too - here they're often referred to as "bootlace ferrules".

They're a good thing to have (along with their special ratchet crimper - which can be really spendy unless you shop around) for their intended purpose, too ... in which role they beef up wire ends and protect them from attrition

Fine strands - which are inevitable for fine wires - do a lot better united than divided-and-conquered , but even bigger strands are prone to progressive attrition due to vibration, flex and corrosion.
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Old 12-03-2013, 08:52   #66
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Re: How to Crimp Little, Tiny Wires

"...stranded is suggested for jack points to computers as it is more flexible .."
On the east coast, we don't call those "jack points to computers" we just say "patch cords" because we're talking about the CORDS not the locations they may be plugged across.

Despite About.com's spotty reputation, which is the expected result of the way they pay authors peanuts for quick blurbs on everything, I've never met someone who <G>used stranded cable for network wiring. In or out of the wall, home or commercial. Regardless of those choices, if you are punching it down into sockets, that won't be patch cords. You might crimp the stranded into RJ45's to make up the patch cords, but premade patch cords are SO cheap, and making them up DIY is such a PITA, I can't say I know anyone who does that either. Except to salvage a cord in an "emergency" when the shops are all closed. (Which is kinda rare these days, now that every drug store carries patch cords.)

Punching it down? Always the solid. Maybe that's an east coast thing, like not burning our coffee beans and then claiming "their not burned, they're dark roasted."

Of course, some folks wire up their duplex outlets with the ground pin UP, others do it with the ground pin DOWN, now that Ma Bell isn't around anymore, who's to say what it right in the electrical world?
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Old 25-03-2013, 14:31   #67
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Re: How to Crimp Little, Tiny Wires

I didn't read through this whole thread, so maybe someone has posted.
I take the thin wire and parallel a larger gauge, as filler, then crimp. I personally haven't had problems doing this, but many will protest.
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Old 25-03-2013, 15:41   #68
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Re: How to Crimp Little, Tiny Wires

"as filler,"
I'm sure there's a special place in hell for those of us who do this, but I'll routinely double up wire or add other filler, if that's what it takes to make a proper fit between the wire and the crimp connector. The connector only needs to know it is stuffed full of wire.

German engineers would tell you "No No NO!" and take away all the tools and wiring from you. Yankees just make it work.
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Old 25-03-2013, 20:00   #69
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Re: How to Crimp Little, Tiny Wires

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"as filler,"
I'm sure there's a special place in hell for those of us who do this, but I'll routinely double up wire or add other filler, if that's what it takes to make a proper fit between the wire and the crimp connector. The connector only needs to know it is stuffed full of wire.

German engineers would tell you "No No NO!" and take away all the tools and wiring from you. Yankees just make it work.
So true.

Filler can and will work for something in the 18awg, maybe even 22awg in certain situations.

But lacking a crimp connector that crimps the wire, and simultaneously crimps the insulation as a strain relief, just won't work when we are talking above 22awg stranded.

Lloyd
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Old 25-03-2013, 20:07   #70
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Re: How to Crimp Little, Tiny Wires

Insulation? Isn't that for rich men?

And double-crimping, for the wire AND the insulation?

Sorry, but when I was a kid they still printed books (anyone remember books?) and there were some really captivating ones about how to make and build all kinds of things, including "western union" splices, which work on bare wire, with no tools, no tape, and relieve the strain in each wire.

Ain't always pretty, but once you run out of chewing gum and baling wire, you've really got to improvise. Und ve start by removink one kidney from the cherman engineer, and trading it for proper tools. <VBG>
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Old 25-03-2013, 21:25   #71
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Re: How to Crimp Little, Tiny Wires

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Insulation? Isn't that for rich men?

And double-crimping, for the wire AND the insulation?

Sorry, but when I was a kid they still printed books (anyone remember books?) and there were some really captivating ones about how to make and build all kinds of things, including "western union" splices, which work on bare wire, with no tools, no tape, and relieve the strain in each wire.

Ain't always pretty, but once you run out of chewing gum and baling wire, you've really got to improvise. Und ve start by removink one kidney from the cherman engineer, and trading it for proper tools. <VBG>
I just finished a rewire on a 1948 all cloth wire with WU splices and a similar technique for T-connections. The wire used was about the size of type II stranded, and soldered. This would never work for type three stranded, because of breakage.

We learned along time ago from failure analysis, that solder only connections do not work in a vibration zone, especially in high-amp requirements. Or for that matter any where were corrosion is a possibility.

Things change for a reason.

It was only about 15 years ago that I thought the only way to make a proper connection for anything above 22 awg was to solder. Then I was introduced to pin crimps, those that I posted links to earlier in this topic.

You just cant do proper Nav/Com aboard ship with out them.

Lloyd
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Old 26-03-2013, 12:23   #72
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Re: How to Crimp Little, Tiny Wires

So the 1948 installation managed pretty much OK for 60+ years, huh? <G>
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Old 26-03-2013, 12:53   #73
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Re: How to Crimp Little, Tiny Wires

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So the 1948 installation managed pretty much OK for 60+ years, huh? <G>
Some of it, but there were many instances where 6-10 inch of new wire with butt splice crimps had replaced the WU's. I saved some of the existing WU's and T's that show the wire strand separating, from heat in the solder joint, vibration, and corrosion.

In this case we are talking about 16-12 AWG, not little tiny wires.

I'll get sometime and post pics.

Lloyd
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