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Old 12-01-2012, 14:57   #16
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Re: How Hard is it to Install Marine Electronics ?

As for switchboard and other wiring, I'm planning to run everyconfiguration on circuit simulators first -yes, I'm a geek, I know- plus I intend to be able to disconnect the whole navigational equiment from the main system and use a handheld during lightning storms etc. in order to avoid total melt down.

As for the fun of DIY on a new boat -and since there're no ladies on this post (yet)-, it's like going on the first date with a pretty girl and telling all your kinks. Yes, thousands of things can go wrong, but then again, what if you manage to do it!
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Old 12-01-2012, 14:57   #17
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Re: How hard is it to install marine electronics and electric equipments?

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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
Batteries are in the quarter berth, way in the back. 40' is a straight shot too and not counting a lot of countours. Boat is 36' long so it might end up being ~40+. I'll definitely be using a string to measure that out and figure out placement prior to making the order.

Thanks for the link; I'll check them out.
In that case, for assessing voltage drop, your run will be 80', not 40'. Voltage drop calculations need to take into account runs going both directions.

You might consider a small battery up near the windlass hooked to the charging system with a combiner or echocharge. That would allow much thinner wire from the battery to the charging system (recharging will not require high amps), and short thick wires to the windlass.

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Old 12-01-2012, 15:04   #18
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Re: How Hard is it to Install Marine Electronics ?

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Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
If it were me, and money was not an issue, I'd get the factory to do the lot, and pay the world's fussiest surveyor to make sure it was right.

Basically, why put DIY on a new boat?
By far, most issues with new boats involve poor factory installation of electronics and other optional systems. You would not believe what boatbuilders will do during installs and you won't find the problems until the boat is out the door. You will pay as much or more for a surveyor/project manager than for after-sales professional installation, and definitely more than a good DIY install.

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Old 12-01-2012, 15:11   #19
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Re: How Hard is it to Install Marine Electronics ?

You might want to look through Sequitur's Blog and see the problems he has had with "dealer" installed equipment. Most manufacturers do not install extras at the factory but leave that to the dealers. Check out your dealer very carefully and get references.

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Old 12-01-2012, 15:18   #20
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Re: How hard is it to install marine electronics and electric equipments?

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
In that case, for assessing voltage drop, your run will be 80', not 40'. Voltage drop calculations need to take into account runs going both directions.

You might consider a small battery up near the windlass hooked to the charging system with a combiner or echocharge. That would allow much thinner wire from the battery to the charging system (recharging will not require high amps), and short thick wires to the windlass.

Mark
That was my initial intention but I've heard all these horror stories about the complexities of one of those setups. For the amount of up and down hauling that windlass is going to do dumping a grand on the wires doesn't seem like that bad of an idea.
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Old 12-01-2012, 15:25   #21
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Re: How Hard is it to Install Marine Electronics ?

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Originally Posted by MehmetCan View Post
As for switchboard and other wiring, I'm planning to run everyconfiguration on circuit simulators first -yes, I'm a geek, I know- plus I intend to be able to disconnect the whole navigational equiment from the main system and use a handheld during lightning storms etc. in order to avoid total melt down.

As for the fun of DIY on a new boat -and since there're no ladies on this post (yet)-, it's like going on the first date with a pretty girl and telling all your kinks. Yes, thousands of things can go wrong, but then again, what if you manage to do it!
As far as saving your stuff by disconnecting, save your complexity. Lightening is so unpredictable a simple (or complex) disconnect will not help you at all.

As for fun of DIY. If you like kneeling, standing on your head, twisting yourself into a pretzel and other painful things then go for it.

I do my own stuff for reasons mentioned but am now not able to stand the pain any longer.

Maybe you can spec the wire runs and ducting and stuff like that for the factory and "plug" into the ends with the equipment later?
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Old 12-01-2012, 15:28   #22
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Re: How Hard is it to Install Marine Electronics ?

The most difficult part of a DIY on a new boat is not knowing the boat. I have installed all of the equipment on your list on our boat except the windgen, but I had the luxury of knowing the boat inside and out before doing so. For doing a good job easily, it is critical to know how and where the wire and plumbing chases run, which panels have which access, where wires and plumbing go when they disappear through hidden spaces, how the main panel feeds sub panels, which bulkheads are structural, how big a hole can be cut in them, etc. Without knowing this, you will make expensive mistakes or find yourself down dead ends regardless of how much you plan and simulate.

However, it can be done. I would get the manufacturer to install major wiring and ductwork while the boat is being built. This can save a lot of hassle and is worth the cost.

Most small aircons are self-contained, drop in units, so they are easy. If you are running larger systems with separate compressors and distributed evaporators and blowers, then get a professional unless you really know what you are doing with AC.

Electronics are ridiculously easy - particularly if you get all N2K gear and run a network backbone with drops.

Inverters and chargers are a matter of sizing cabling correctly and understanding basic AC electrics.

Generators are easy if the boat is designed with a place for them. More difficult if not. I would get the factory to install the mounts, fuel lines and blower/ventilation ducts and possibly even the DC and AC cabling. The rest is dirt simple - drop it in and secure it on the mounts, connect the fuel intake and return hoses, hook up the starter and ground cables and connect the AC lines, do whatever you need for ventilation and add an external fuel filter. Gensets come as drop-in units.

If you have the space for mounting solar panels - like a hardtop bimini - they too are dirt simple. Mount them with some L-channel on the hardtop and run the wires to the controller.

Windgens typically require a mounting system like a pole. That can be a bit involved design-wise, but again, they are dirt-simple to hook up. Run the wires to the controller or batteries (depending on model) and it is done. I haven't installed one on our boat, but have on others.

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Old 12-01-2012, 15:32   #23
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Re: How Hard is it to Install Marine Electronics ?

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Originally Posted by MehmetCan View Post
I intend to be able to disconnect the whole navigational equiment from the main system and use a handheld during lightning storms etc. in order to avoid total melt down.
Not going to work - and I speak from experience having just replaced every single electronic system and a lot of the electrical system on our boat due to a lighting strike.

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Old 12-01-2012, 15:57   #24
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Re: How Hard is it to Install Marine Electronics ?

Colemj post makes sense. +1

I would not want to install elect wiring myself after delivery but would be OK to add to. Not sure specifically with Lagoon but many drop in machinery including genset/motors & wiring before deck put in place.ss

External add ons no issue.

Interested in your process of finally deciding on the Lagoon 450. I note earlier on you were looking at 60ft+ cats including Gunboats etc.

No doubt the 450 will get you around the world safely and in good style.
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Old 12-01-2012, 17:21   #25
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Re: How Hard is it to Install Marine Electronics ?

You say it is obviously a ripoff but then ask if it would be nightmare. That tells me you really don't know what's involved, you don't know that it is a ripoff at all, and you might be getting in over your head.

Boat wiring, 12v or 120v, isn't rocket science. But you need the right tools and knowledge and experience also counts. When you pick up the boat, where will you keep it and what will that cost you, while you are fitting the electronics? If you work with computer systems, what is the value of your time?

A proper crimping tool can run a fast $100, the $5 one from the auto chain is junk. Every inch of wire that you buy has to be fully tinned, some has to be special types (i.e. battery wire) or insulation (rated for engine spaces) and you'll need spools in various colors. Plus every connection you make should be a particular type, often heat shrink adhesive lined crimps that aren't a nickel apiece either.

Yes, "dealer" labor rates can be awfully high. Yes, you can save all that and probably do a better job by doing it yourself. But I'd suggest doing the homework before you make that decision. Read up on what proper marine wiring practices are, check out tool and part prices, figure out what it is going to cost you including dockage or yard time, while that boat is being fitted.

Then decide what might be reasonable, and think about whether you might just want to ask the dealer for a break instead. Remember, in theory they also warranty the entire job.
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Old 12-01-2012, 17:47   #26
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Re: How Hard is it to Install Marine Electronics ?

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A proper crimping tool can run a fast $100, the $5 one from the auto chain is junk.
This should be considered a mandatory tool on a boat even if one is not planning a complete refit or installation.

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Remember, in theory they also warranty the entire job.
Good luck with that...

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Old 12-01-2012, 18:05   #27
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Re: How Hard is it to Install Marine Electronics ?

Remember that the wires are often the easy part. You need to cut strangely-dimensioned and odd-sized holes in bulkheads and panels, and when you're done have it look nice. Don't overlook the cabinetry and aesthetics, these can be more difficult than they look.

I've got this one piece of gear down below that really annoys me. I had a friend do the installation and he picked the wrong angle to align it to (there are very few right angles on a boat). It works great, but to my eye it looks bad. Fixing it would take more work than it's worth to me, since you can't just move a cutout in a panel.

All this is subjective of course, but who wants an ugly boat?
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Old 12-01-2012, 18:24   #28
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Re: How hard is it to install marine electronics and electric equipments?

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Sorry for hijacking your thread bro.

Looked at the wiring and can't find much 0 gauge but the 1/0 is *expensive*. Looks like $600 bills just for the damn wires.

Marine Wire / Battery Cable
Its a little cheaper here. Mike is great to do business with and the shipping is free
GenuineDealz.com - Marine Electrical, Boat Wire & Cable, Custom Battery Cables
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Old 12-01-2012, 18:31   #29
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Re: How Hard is it to Install Marine Electronics ?

One thing to consider when deciding who will do what installations is the difference in wire size for 220V systems built in France and 110V in U.S. One of the few good things our broker did for us was to keep the FP factory from installing AC wiring. We had it done in Seattle by professionals who really knew what they were doing. We got to choose locations for our electrical outlets and they did the rest.
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Old 12-01-2012, 18:46   #30
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Re: How Hard is it to Install Marine Electronics ?

I had to do the wiring in my Endeavour 43 and I learned very early all of the automotive junk that the previous owners had installed was junk. It all had to be ripped out and reinstalled with proper marine grade wire and terminals.
One of the biggest head aches was running wires with factory plugs. I started using the environmentally sealed fittings from Deutsch Industrial and sold by Ladd.
LADD Industries | Environmentally Sealed Electrical Connectors | Deutsch Connectors
This system is pricy but they are a big time saver. Crimping #22 wire from a radio cable is a breeze because it is a 4 sided crimp. The crimping tool was about $180 but it was one of the best investments I ever made.Now when I need to run a 6 wire cable through a tight spot, I just cut it...run it..and put plugs on the cut end and it is better than new. If you screw up, the plugs come right apart.
Now if a water pump needs to be replaced, it takes 10 seconds. Everything that is electrical (ie fans,lights,pumps etc) and prone to failure has these plugs installed.
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