How do you Crimp #8 AWG Terminals?

[hellosailor]

rw-
Chinese Whitworth gague, yes. As in, how do you really screw up a mechanic in the US? Give 'em a job that uses British Whitworth sized fittings. Doesn't match anything. So, extrapolate a little. Take Whitworth tooling which is worn out, and export it to China, where some ingenious soul will use it without regard for specs. Which happens to be a very common problem with stuff made in China. Companies set up shop in China, and when their tooling is worn out, they junk it--only to find their Chinese partners didn't junk it but use it to counterfeit the same machinery on the same assembly line at night.

So yes, Chinese Whitworth. Try to find wrenchs in that size from your supplier. totally mythological, just like the numbers stamped on their dies. Whether HF's supplier used worn dies or simply screwed it up, no one knows. Does it matter?

The web site says it crimps 0/AWG. Purchasers say it doesn't. And, the web site does not say if the numbers stamped on the dies are supposed to match the AWG sizes. It must be confusing, to be a Chinese supplier, speaking perhaps Mandarin and English, and then being asked to stamp Arabic numbers on the parts. Three languages!

"case-hardened butter"
But it was the very best of butter! [said the Mad Hatter]

[Scott Berg]

This thread is amazing... Here is what we've used @ CBW for years; both made by T&B, sold by Lawson.. 4/0 to 8 in two tools; most people have the rachet tool for 10-22; for smaller wires. We also have crimpers for Anderson connectors that are a bit different. It's AWAYS worth it to use the right tools... I don't think I've ever met a mechanic, technician, or engineer who's budget would afford the long term effect of cheap tools...

INDUSTRIAL, Tru-Crimp, Tools and Accessories : Lawson US Catalog 2011 - Page 9-69 : Lawson Products Catalog

[hellosailor]

Scott, that Lawson crimper is over $3500. For just one.

Does the phrase "economically unfeasible" ring a bell?

[Scott Berg]

Got to be a typo; we bought ours for $1195 for the large one and $225 for the small one that does 8awg... I just noticed that... I'll send them an email... guessing they'll be surprised!

[hellosailor]

Oh, $1200, that's way more reasonable.

For $1200 I'd buy some thermite cups and weld them the really professional way.

At that price, it should come in a little blue box that says "Tiffany" on it. A bolt cutter with a precision jaw just can't cost that much to make.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Scott Berg

Got to be a typo; we bought ours for $1195 for the large one and $225 for the small one that does 8awg... I just noticed that... I'll send them an email... guessing they'll be surprised!

Excepting the smaller one is discontinued - no longer available!

[Scott Berg]

Just found a clone from Greenlee of the smaller (8awg as requested by the OP) on Amazon; looks like the same as mine with different handles...

Greenlee K111 Crimping Tool 8-1 AWG - Amazon.com

Scott

[Zil]

Whitworth

That brings back import car memories. Three different tool boxes. We are showing our age.

[hellosailor]

Memo:
1. Win PowerBall this weekend.
2. Buy proper Burndy crimping tool, $1400.


I'm beginning to understand why elevator repair shops SOLDER their cable ends.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

rw, wotname pretty much has it.

I'm referring to a certain vendor that I will call "Horror Fright" because some of their stuff is outright scary, even trhough their prices are great. The phrase "tools to use just once" comes to mind, and they're often cheap enough and good enough to do that job.

As to the crimper itself, there have been a couple of long threads, at least one on this forum, discussing crimping tools and the fact the Horror Freight makes a damned attractive one, for about $55. Except, anyone who has used it says that it is made from lapped up plates instead of a one-piece die, and that worse, the crimp sizes do not match the numbers used by ANY vendor. If it says a max of 00 cable, that 00 might fit a #2AWG. What they call #8, might fit #10 or #12.

From all appearances the product is made from worn dies or sloppy workmanship and the user may need to do a little fiddling to get acceptable crimps. Which could be a nasty surprise, ergo "Horror Fright".

"The only way to "fix" a hex crimper that fails its calibration is to replace the dies."
Oh, I don't know. You could laser, waterjet, or abrade the dies all out to the next standard size. Or plasma-spray them back to the smaller size. Cheaper to replace though, I'd expect.<G>

I have the Harbor Freight crimper and I've already said it's a cheap tool. If I were in the business of wiring boats, I would buy something better. For a boat owner who will probably never make more than a couple dozen large crimps in his or her lifetime and can't borrow or rent a quality crimper, this tool will do the job and makes financial sense.

[Coops]

Before this becomes bickering, we do have a be nice rule, and it is enforced. So please consider your next posts.

Coops.

[FlyingCloud1937]

Originally Posted by defjef

Why?

You think that if you make a really strong crimp which compresses the strands and constrains them in the connector shaft it is not creating a *sudden interface* transition from rigid to flexible?

Answer: of course it does.

Well sure it does sailor, that is by design. Then you have an 2 inch or so of wire constrained by the sheathing and heatshrink.

A solder connection will work harden until you get an inch or 2 past the last solder, which will then be well past the heat shrink, and the cable jacket.

Wires shouldn't be bouncing around. Restrain them and mitigate the strain from rigid to flexible you fear.

Retraint, without felxure is what causes the problem

What is more a concern is the corrosion which finds its way around each and every strand of wire.

Not a gas tight compression, made with the right tool for the job.

Properly soldered and supported wiring is perfectly fine and even preferable in most cases to what is the typical corrosion prone crimped connection

Never preferable, unless, you quit learning in 1959. Corrosion is the result of air entering into any joint that isn't gas tight.

A bad crimp is right next to a solder joint. In terms of probable failure.

Lloyd

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937

........
Not a gas tight compression, made with the right tool for the job.

IME, this rarely happens, most crimps just aren't gas-tight despite what claims are made even when using correct (and calibrated) tooling. The better ones are almost gas tight whereas solder (again done properly) is gas tight.
Not saying solder is perfect, it isn't and it does have problems but let's not think good crimps are perfect either

Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937

....Corrosion is the result of air entering into any joint that isn't gas tight.

A bad crimp is right next to a solder joint. In terms of probable failure.

Lloyd

Technically (and I am nit picking here), it's electrolyte entering the joint, normally in the form of water carrying ionised salts.

But on a more significant note, I would argue that a bad crimp is far worse than most reasonable solder joints and on par with poorly executed solder joints; I do accept YMMV

[rwidman]

It doesn't look like there will ever be an agreement on this subject. People in the know (not web forum participants, but engineers, designers, technicians, etc.) seem to agree that a properly made crimp is the best way to join marine wires and cables together or to terminals and/or lugs. This is borne out by the fact that most, if not all boat builders crimp their electrical connections. Cars and trucks are wired the same way.

If anyone here is still confused by this or is open minded enough to reconsider his/her opinion, I suggest getting away from web forums and doing some independent research on the Internet or in print. Look for articles or books by people with credentials, companies, etc., not just DIY boat owners who often post just so they can get a reaction from someone else.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by rwidman

It doesn't look like there will ever be an agreement on this subject. People in the know (not web forum participants, but engineers, designers, technicians, etc.) seem to agree that a properly made crimp is the best way to join marine wires and cables together or to terminals and/or lugs. This is borne out by the fact that most, if not all boat builders crimp their electrical connections. Cars and trucks are wired the same way.

If anyone here is still confused by this or is open minded enough to reconsider his/her opinion, I suggest getting away from web forums and doing some independent research on the Internet or in print. Look for articles or books by people with credentials, companies, etc., not just DIY boat owners who often post just so they can get a reaction from someone else.

I'm a little curious as to where you see yourself in this continuum?
Not that it matters really but you post quite a bit as a forum participant on these subjects (as do I) so I do remain curious since you raise the concept that forum participants and DIY boats owners can't also be engineers, designers or technicians.

To the best of my knowledge many members of CF are successful professionals who are proficient in their technical trade areas; some are genuine rocket scientists (who I have personally met) and they share their knowledge generously on CF. Many of them are experienced cruisers as well. The fact they may not always agree with your POV (or mine for that matter) doesn't make them wrong.

I have noticed that some experts have been repeating second best practice for years believing it to be best practice because they remain closed to the concept that other methods may have merit in circumstances which with they are not familiar. This is not directed to you of course