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Old 13-08-2012, 07:11   #31
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Re: House battery replacement

The lead crystal batteries have been sold since 1994 they say, but in close to 20 years established no reputation as giant killers? That doesn't sound right. Also their claim that the is no electrolyte besides the white crystals. No liquid no paste no electrolyte except a layer of hard crystals? Sounds something like impossible.
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Old 13-08-2012, 07:36   #32
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Re: House battery replacement

I just looked at the Deltec Lead Crystal brochure you posted. In the brochure, they state 3100 discharges to 80% DoD. Then, the table further down the page, shows that the batteries retain 60% of their capacity when discharged to 80% over about 1000 cycles. Huh? THey are contradicting themselves. They also grossly understate the discharge cababilities of Lithium, although they don't state which lithium chemistry they are describing, so that data is just meaningless.

If you are shipping batteries, LIFEPO4 batteries and their close cousins can be shipped NON-hazmat. I shipped four once using the postal service's own priority mail boxes. 200ah cells wight around 15 lbs each, depending on manufacturer, and you need four of them, so they weigh 1/2 of the weight of lead acid, or those lead crystal ones.

Finally, there is no talk about internal resistance with the lead crystal batteries. Good gel, agm batteries can take hefty charging, so your charge times are reduced. They also take more of the power you generate, so you get more out of your wind and solar, etc. My personal experience with our LIFEPO4 cells is that over 97% of the juice you generate ends up in the cells. We got by with one 120w solar panel (MPPT controller) and an air-x (Spreco blades) in the Bahamas, and never ran the engine just to charge the batteries.

There are two factors that in my opinion made this possible. first, the cells must be efficient, so that you get the most of your charging sources. Gels, AGM and LIFEPO4 all meet this criteria, to different levels. The second, mostly never talked about key is the batteries ability to remain at less than 100% state of charge without damage or impact to their lifespan. I have only found LIFEPO4 to meet this criteria. For long-term storage, our cell manufacturer recommends charging to 50%.

Why is this important? We often hovered around 50-60% charge for days and even weeks at a time. Then, we either had to motor somewhere, or the wind/solar picked up enough to charge the batteries back up close to or at 100%. If you do that with AGM batteries, you will kill them. I am not sure about gels, but I think the same applies.

Chris
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Old 13-08-2012, 07:57   #33
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Re: House battery replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by foggysail View Post
Rebel--- With a good charger there should be no need to be frequently adding water. I have gone 2 years without adding any in my 5 batteries. Now with golf carts, the battery count has increased to 7.

It does not hurt though to frequently check them for water.
If the batteries rarely see much discharge and are on float charge most of the time, then very little water will be used. However, for most cruiser's usage pattern where the batteries are mostly on bulk charge voltages recovering from a good discharge cycle, adding a bit of water every few months is normal for flooded batteries. Especially with a good charging source.

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Old 13-08-2012, 12:31   #34
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Re: House battery replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by witzgall View Post
I just looked at the Deltec Lead Crystal brochure you posted. In the brochure, they state 3100 discharges to 80% DoD. Then, the table further down the page, shows that the batteries retain 60% of their capacity when discharged to 80% over about 1000 cycles. Huh? THey are contradicting themselves. They also grossly understate the discharge cababilities of Lithium, although they don't state which lithium chemistry they are describing, so that data is just meaningless.

If you are shipping batteries, LIFEPO4 batteries and their close cousins can be shipped NON-hazmat. I shipped four once using the postal service's own priority mail boxes. 200ah cells wight around 15 lbs each, depending on manufacturer, and you need four of them, so they weigh 1/2 of the weight of lead acid, or those lead crystal ones.

Finally, there is no talk about internal resistance with the lead crystal batteries. Good gel, agm batteries can take hefty charging, so your charge times are reduced. They also take more of the power you generate, so you get more out of your wind and solar, etc. My personal experience with our LIFEPO4 cells is that over 97% of the juice you generate ends up in the cells. We got by with one 120w solar panel (MPPT controller) and an air-x (Spreco blades) in the Bahamas, and never ran the engine just to charge the batteries.

There are two factors that in my opinion made this possible. first, the cells must be efficient, so that you get the most of your charging sources. Gels, AGM and LIFEPO4 all meet this criteria, to different levels. The second, mostly never talked about key is the batteries ability to remain at less than 100% state of charge without damage or impact to their lifespan. I have only found LIFEPO4 to meet this criteria. For long-term storage, our cell manufacturer recommends charging to 50%.

Why is this important? We often hovered around 50-60% charge for days and even weeks at a time. Then, we either had to motor somewhere, or the wind/solar picked up enough to charge the batteries back up close to or at 100%. If you do that with AGM batteries, you will kill them. I am not sure about gels, but I think the same applies.

Chris
Hi Cris,

I am certainly no expert on batteries ... I buy the best I can at the time I buy ... have to say though, his Lead Crystals beat the hell out of my Exide deep cycle gel batteries imported from Germany !
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Old 25-09-2012, 10:48   #35
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Re: House Battery Replacement

I am looking to replace a couple West Marine 200AH AGMs. I think they are Deka East Penn batteries. Where is the best place to source these? I'd prefer to not pay the WM premium. Any ideas?

Scott
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