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Old 03-06-2013, 06:33   #91
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but probably fuse size has more to do with wire gauge then it does battery capacity? probably I asked another fool question.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:58   #92
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Re: House Batteries in my Westsail 32

C. yes the fuses size to protect the wire . you're going to love your battery monitor , just don't obsess and allow it to drive you crazy lmk. if you need any help
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:01   #93
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Hey guys,
My new system is slammin thanks to you'all.
My Victron battery monitor is scheduled to arrive UPS late Tuesday evening.
I have no concerns regarding the install but I'm thinking about adding a Blue Seas #2151 double battery terminal fuse to my 4 Trojan T-105's.
What size fuses should I be using?
I need a fuse from the positive terminal to the bus bar and the second post I'll need a fuse for future accessories (maybe the fridge and bilge?). Currently I have everything tied into the positive and negative bus bars and nothing at the terminals.
Anyone think I shouldn't bother with the double battery terminal fuse?
Overkill?

http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syste...=blue+sea+2151

Thanks
You must have a fuse and switch between the batteries and the positive bus bar. Let us know what you have now, what size cables etc.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:01   #94
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You must have a fuse and switch between the batteries and the positive bus bar. Let us know what you have now, what size cables etc.
Jedi,
100 amp thermal circuit breaker 36" from the house batts and then a house battery switch following.
I read in someones blog that they insist on a fuse on the battery terminal.
Probably my setup is acceptable?

My boat is almost all I care about, I don't want it to burn.

Also in the photo, the 10 gauge wire entering the 100 amp breaker is my solar panels (inline fuse 20 amp) as you instructed.
There are 2 Blue Sea fuse blocks that are nearly full, the remaining accessories are wired to the control panel or bus bars.
Maybe I should add a 3rd Blue Seas fuse block.
All of this wiring, excluding a couple accessories to the fuse block and my new solar, is existing from the previous owner.
I bought this boat 1.5 yrs ago, it's my 4th sailboat and likely to be my last.

Btw, I have received several "thank yous" from members for them benefitting from this thread but I owe you and others that have contributed the "thank yous".

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Old 03-06-2013, 11:07   #95
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Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post

Jedi,
100 amp thermal circuit breaker 36" from the house batts and then a house battery switch following.
I read in someones blog that they insist on a fuse on the battery terminal.
Probably my setup is acceptable?

My boat is almost all I care about, I don't want it to burn.

Also in the photo, the 10 gauge wire entering the 100 amp breaker is my solar panels (inline fuse 20 amp) as you instructed.
There are 2 Blue Sea fuse blocks that are nearly full, the remaining accessories are wired to the control panel or bus bars.
Maybe I should add a 3rd Blue Seas fuse block.
All of this wiring, excluding a couple accessories to the fuse block and my new solar, is existing from the previous owner.
I bought this boat 1.5 yrs ago, it's my 4th sailboat and likely to be my last.

Btw, I have received several "thank yous" from members for them benefitting from this thread but I owe you and others that have contributed the "thank yous".
Yes, you should go ahead and order the fuse holder and two fuses (1 is spare). I need to know the awg size of the positive cable between battery and thermal breaker to find the right fuse size. Also, order the extra fuse block for accessories.

There is one more thing you need: when you receive the battery monitor, you will have to install the shunt that comes with it. This goes into the negative wire that goes to the batteries. You probably have to cut it and install terminals. Another option is to install the shunt where that negative cable is connected and move it to the shunt. You then need a small jumper of the same size wire to complete the circuit between shunt and where that negative wire connected to originally. Those small jumpers are sold assembled by West Marine or on-line, which might make that the easier option.

Last thing: find out what each cable is that connects to the battery switch. What is the black cable doing there?

Yes it's nice to receive the thank yous, isn't it? What works so well is that you are willing to make things right and stay around to report how it all works out. That is just as important as me and others taking time to explain things. So you keep holding on to the thank yous that you got
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:25   #96
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Re: House Batteries in my Westsail 32

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Yes, you should go ahead and order the fuse holder and two fuses (1 is spare). I need to know the awg size of the positive cable between battery and thermal breaker to find the right fuse size. Also, order the extra fuse block for accessories.

There is one more thing you need: when you receive the battery monitor, you will have to install the shunt that comes with it. This goes into the negative wire that goes to the batteries. You probably have to cut it and install terminals. Another option is to install the shunt where that negative cable is connected and move it to the shunt. You then need a small jumper of the same size wire to complete the circuit between shunt and where that negative wire connected to originally. Those small jumpers are sold assembled by West Marine or on-line, which might make that the easier option.

Last thing: find out what each cable is that connects to the battery switch. What is the black cable doing there?

Yes it's nice to receive the thank yous, isn't it? What works so well is that you are willing to make things right and stay around to report how it all works out. That is just as important as me and others taking time to explain things. So you keep holding on to the thank yous that you got
The 36" cable from the battery to thermal breaker is 4 awg as well as all the battery cables.
Except for the negative cables you mention that I need for the shunt and for completing the circuit, these I have already purchased and "lugged", they are 2 awg. I figured it wouldn't hurt to start converting to a heavier cable.
And the other exception where I have heavier cables is the short pieces that tie my batteries together in series (positive to negative battery terminals), here I am using the big 1 awg cable.

The black cable you ask about at the switch goes to a combiner switch (for house and start battery combinations). I have been told the combiner switch is defective, I do have a third switch (on and off) for the starting battery that is functional.

So....buy a fuse holder? A double terminal holder as in the link?
Cool, I can do that.
What size fuses and would you put some accessories on one terminal?
How about the emergency automatic bilge pump (not yet purchased) on the accessory fused terminal?

Regarding the "thank yous";
I have been on forums for many years, cruisersforum since 2009, I always keep threads complete and as up to date as possible and I always urge others to do so as well. For those of us that are technically challenged on that particular thread topic it's the least we can do for the betterment of the community.

I made a 14 second youtube video of my Genasun mppt controller's LED at solid display status indicating "batteries full".
I'm looking forward to seeing some factual digital results in a day or so when I get the Victron battery monitor installed.



endoftheroad
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Old 03-06-2013, 13:19   #97
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Awg4 can handle 160A when not bundled or in engine room. You could go for the 150A fuse or down to 125A. Get the cheaper 1-terminal version.
You can remove the thermal breaker after you install the new fuses.

The fuse should be as close to the battery as possible, and closer than on the terminal is not possible so this solution is great. The reason is that the fuse can only protect the cable when it sits in between the cable and the battery.

Instead of the thermal breaker, install a small buss bar there, like this 150A one: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...3#.UazqGsu9KSM

That is where you would connect an emergency bilge pump (with in-line fuse) etc. this means that you can turn the battery switch to OFF while the pump stays powered. I would also connect the solar panels there, like you effectively already did at the breaker.

At your engine should be two battery switches: one labeled "start" and the other "emergency". At the engine side they are connected to each other and the starter/alternator. At the other side the "start" switch connects to the start battery and the "emergency" switch connects to that black cable on the picture. The thing to remember is that when the engine is running, you can never turn both switches to OFF because it will blow up the alternator diodes. Always keep batteries connected.
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Old 03-06-2013, 15:20   #98
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Re: House Batteries in my Westsail 32

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Awg4 can handle 160A when not bundled or in engine room. You could go for the 150A fuse or down to 125A. Get the cheaper 1-terminal version.
You can remove the thermal breaker after you install the new fuses.

The fuse should be as close to the battery as possible, and closer than on the terminal is not possible so this solution is great. The reason is that the fuse can only protect the cable when it sits in between the cable and the battery.

Instead of the thermal breaker, install a small buss bar there, like this 150A one: BLUE SEA SYSTEMS Terminal at West Marine

That is where you would connect an emergency bilge pump (with in-line fuse) etc. this means that you can turn the battery switch to OFF while the pump stays powered. I would also connect the solar panels there, like you effectively already did at the breaker.

At your engine should be two battery switches: one labeled "start" and the other "emergency". At the engine side they are connected to each other and the starter/alternator. At the other side the "start" switch connects to the start battery and the "emergency" switch connects to that black cable on the picture. The thing to remember is that when the engine is running, you can never turn both switches to OFF because it will blow up the alternator diodes. Always keep batteries connected.
Thank you Thank you Thank you!

It sounds like a plan!

I was just using the motor for about an hour and felt all the cables/wires, the awg4 cable (36" total length) from the battery to the thermal breaker was VERY warm for about 1 foot before entering the thermal breaker, the breaker wasn't warm though. All the other wires were room temperature. My alternator is probably the original 50 amp alternator that came with the Yanmar 3gm30f as the motor only has a few hundred hours.
I will google "thermal breaker 100 amp" now to try and understand what it does and if that hot spot in the wire was getting backed up.
Sorry I probably sound silly but I don't understand why the cable was relatively hot near the breaker.

Yes, I need another fuse block also.

I'm in good shape.
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Old 03-06-2013, 15:39   #99
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Thank you Thank you Thank you!

It sounds like a plan!

I was just using the motor for about an hour and felt all the cables/wires, the awg4 cable (36" total length) from the battery to the thermal breaker was VERY warm for about 1 foot before entering the thermal breaker, the breaker wasn't warm though. All the other wires were room temperature. My alternator is probably the original 50 amp alternator that came with the Yanmar 3gm30f as the motor only has a few hundred hours.
I will google "thermal breaker 100 amp" now to try and understand what it does and if that hot spot in the wire was getting backed up.
Sorry I probably sound silly but I don't understand why the cable was relatively hot near the breaker.

Yes, I need another fuse block also.

I'm in good shape.
I suspect a problem with the terminal on the cable at the breaker end. I would redo it with a fresh new terminal. If you have a multimeter you can check this to know for sure: with the meter on DC volts, put one lead at each end of the cable. This shows the voltage drop over the cable, which should be near 0V.
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:16   #100
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Re: House Batteries in my Westsail 32

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I suspect a problem with the terminal on the cable at the breaker end. I would redo it with a fresh new terminal. If you have a multimeter you can check this to know for sure: with the meter on DC volts, put one lead at each end of the cable. This shows the voltage drop over the cable, which should be near 0V.
Ok, I have a meter but I'm a greenhorn.

-When I test the pos and neg BATTERY terminals I get 12.62 volts.
-When I keep the negative probe on the negative battery terminal and the positive probe to the cable end at the thermal breaker (suspected problem cable) I get 12.55 volts (my solar lead wire is also connected here).

-When I test both ends of the wire from thermal breaker end to the positive battery end I get .07 volts.
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:33   #101
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Re: House Batteries in my Westsail 32

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I suspect a problem with the terminal on the cable at the breaker end. I would redo it with a fresh new terminal. If you have a multimeter you can check this to know for sure: with the meter on DC volts, put one lead at each end of the cable. This shows the voltage drop over the cable, which should be near 0V.
Ok, I have a meter but I'm a greenhorn.

-When I test the pos and neg BATTERY terminals I get 12.62 volts.
-When I keep the negative probe on the negative battery terminal and the positive probe to the cable end at the thermal breaker (suspected problem cable) I get 12.55 volts (my solar lead wire is also connected here).

-When I test both ends of the wire from thermal breaker end to the positive battery end I get .07 volts.
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:34   #102
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Ok, I have a meter but I'm a greenhorn.

-When I test the pos and neg BATTERY terminals I get 12.62 volts.
-When I keep the negative probe on the negative battery terminal and the positive probe to the cable end at the thermal breaker (suspected problem cable) I get 12.55 volts (my solar lead wire is also connected here).

-When I test both ends of the wire from thermal breaker end to the positive battery end I get .07 volts.
Perfect measurement. 12.55 + the 0.07 lost over the cable makes the 12.62. The thing is, you must do this when the cable gets hot, i.e. when charging on the alternator. If you have an amp meter (I think I saw one in your video) then also note how many amps go through.
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:59   #103
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Re: House Batteries in my Westsail 32

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Perfect measurement. 12.55 + the 0.07 lost over the cable makes the 12.62. The thing is, you must do this when the cable gets hot, i.e. when charging on the alternator. If you have an amp meter (I think I saw one in your video) then also note how many amps go through.

Is that enough for the cable to be bad?

It just so happens that this cable is one of about 3 sections of cable that is old, in fact it doesn't even say anything on the cable (marine, tinned etc), it's just solid red insulation. I have alot of spare (new) cable in a locker. I just need to install some new tinned lugs. I tested the cables in the lockers and they test 0.0 volts.

So this difference in voltage is why it heated up or is that normal volt meter readings for 3 foot of cable?

I'm confused when you say "perfect measurement".
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Old 03-06-2013, 17:02   #104
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Re: House Batteries in my Westsail 32

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Is that enough for the cable to be bad?

It just so happens that this cable is one of about 3 sections of cable that is old, in fact it doesn't even say anything on the cable (marine, tinned etc), it's just solid red insulation. I have alot of spare (new) cable in a locker. I just need to install some new tinned lugs. I tested the cables in the lockers and they test 0.0 volts.

So this difference in voltage is why it heated up or is that normal volt meter readings for 3 foot of cable?

I'm confused when you say "perfect measurement".

On a cable that size dropping voltage like that on such a short run I'd def be concerned. It may not even be the cable itself, sometimes the lug connections can corrode and any corrosion anywhere causes resistance which in turn causes heat and voltage drop.
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Old 03-06-2013, 17:16   #105
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Re: House Batteries in my Westsail 32

Thanks Jedi,
Thanks Target,

I didn't know it was this easy, I will replace the cable then. I will test the other sections now that I know how to do it and replace the necessary ones.
Someday I will look back at this and laugh, today I'm excited and looking forward to a sound electrical system on my boat.

So...to all you greenhorns reading this, turn on your motor, climb into your engine room and start feeling up your cable.

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