Honda Gensets in Parallel

[Strygaldwir]

Conceptually, I got the Kippor as a power bridging solution. When my wind generator didn't produce enough and the solar was not shinning, I'd have a solution asside from running my engines. It has come in very handy during the time I broke the blades on my wind generator and the times when I was at anchor and there was no wind. I will add addition solar panels before I go cruising again and probably take extra blades for my wind generator. This should bring me back in line with only having to maybe use the Kippor once a week or so.

In essence what I am suggesting is that a portable generator is probably not the best solution to rely on for critical systems. They can break. Placement can be a pain, provisions for exhaust must be made. Refueling for long runs is not the best. If I were going to need the power required for AC and I thought it was important, I'd certainly give serious thought to a marine genset.

[Cptn Happy]

This is a timely topic as I have been pondering how to power my 16000 btu Marine Aire a/c w/out an onboard generator. The unit draws 11.1 ac amps. The Honda 2000 produces 16.7 amps max, rated amps of 13.3(100 watts). So it seems that the Honda should be sufficient, at least for short term operation. The problem arises when the ac unit is turned on-there is obviously a surge and right now I don't know what that is-does anyone on the board? One way to address this might be to install a Victron inverter/charger w/the surge compensation feature. The batteries would "cushion" the surge from the starting ac, which should only last a second or two. Does anyone have any thoughts on this scheme?

[stevensc]

A friend carried 2 of the 2000 watt units on his Camano 31 trawler it ran his 1600 btu A/C fine he was very happy with the setup.
Steve

[1960cjj]

I've been using the Honda EU20i for a number of years and for the last 2 years have had two. (land use in the bush) When needed I run them in parallel from a cable that I made myself. I have never ever had a problem. The cables down here in Oz are very expensive and the ones that I could find to buy weren't Honda originals anyway.

Here is the site that I got the info on how to make them.

Ray

Craig

[bobfnbw]

Originally Posted by Strygaldwir

Conceptually, I got the Kippor as a power bridging solution. When my wind generator didn't produce enough and the solar was not shinning, I'd have a solution asside from running my engines. It has come in very handy during the time I broke the blades on my wind generator and the times when I was at anchor and there was no wind. I will add addition solar panels before I go cruising again and probably take extra blades for my wind generator. This should bring me back in line with only having to maybe use the Kippor once a week or so.

In essence what I am suggesting is that a portable generator is probably not the best solution to rely on for critical systems. They can break. Placement can be a pain, provisions for exhaust must be made. Refueling for long runs is not the best. If I were going to need the power required for AC and I thought it was important, I'd certainly give serious thought to a marine genset.

Strygaldwir, I agree, but then a built in genset requires the same, plus installation for the set can run several thousand dollars, the cost of 2 Honda 2000i's.
If they last 5 years, and you replace them, your still ahead.
I would have them on the aft deck, and so exhaust would not be a issue.
I believe you can modify them to run off a larger fuel tank, like a outboard tank.
But I would never (that I can think of) run these for extended periods of time. I have 2 100 watt solar panels now, will add 2 130 watt panels asap, and a kiss wind generator. Most of my charging should be done with this system, and the hefty a/c loads for cooking could be done from the inverter in a pinch, or just fire up the honda for 1 hour or so.

Capt Happy, the victron has a power sharing feature that will do what your saying, as long as your battery capacity can handle it. I plan on 500 ah of agms that should be fine with the solar and wind, plus the honda. I don't know if the 2000i will run a 16k btu, but should run a 9k btu fine, and thats what I would need for sleeping. And mostly I plan just on cooling things down a bit before bed, then turning it off and going with our hella fans. Some a/c systems have soft starts , like the friendship marine unit i have. Check to see what your starting loads are first, then call the manufactor if the load is excessive.

craig how is the sound with 2 running in parellel compared to a single unit?
And is there a way you think to dampen it buy putting in a foam inclosure?
you would still have to have exhaust and intake, so not sure it would work.

Bob

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by bobfnbw

Amytom, how does the sound output compare when running two in parellel against one ?
Since they are both ~60dB, does having two double the sound or ...

Adding a 60 decibel sound level to another 60 decibels gives 63 decibels, which is a doubling of sound power (adding 2 identical sound intensities always results in an increase of 3 dB); but not nearly a doubling of perceived loudness. I think* that 63 dB will be percieved as about 1.477% "louder" than 60 dB.

The perceived loudness is NOT proportional to the intensity of the sound. It is more nearly proportional to the logarithm of the intensity.

* You’ll need a mathematician to explain logarithmic addition, and a physicist to explain the distinction between sound "intensity" (measured in watts/m^2) and "loudness" (a sensory response).

[1960cjj]

Bob,
The sound difference between one and two generators running isn't much different. To quite the genny's down further you can make an acoustic box that the genny would sit in. An small opening at one end to allow airflow in and an exit point for the exhaust gas. To quiet the exhaust noise down it has to be deflected prior to escaping from the box. Like going through an "S" bend. A heat proof lining inside the box to finish it off.

I am trying to find some pictures of one that I have seen made. I will post them here when I locate them.

Craig

[1960cjj]

Bob,
I couldn't find the pictures but here is an example that I got from the web.

http://www.campertrailers.org/soundproof_box.htm

Craig

[skipmac]

I have been looking into the same situation and from all research this should a very workable solution. I was skeptical when I first heard about the AC boost feature of the Victron, but based on reports from owners and specs reported by the manufacturer the Victron seems to have the appropriate power, phase matching, and response time to deal with the startup demand of AC or refer compressors.

I highly recommend you try this and report to me if it works as well as I think. Then I will get one of my own.

Originally Posted by Cptn Happy

This is a timely topic as I have been pondering how to power my 16000 btu Marine Aire a/c w/out an onboard generator. The unit draws 11.1 ac amps. The Honda 2000 produces 16.7 amps max, rated amps of 13.3(100 watts). So it seems that the Honda should be sufficient, at least for short term operation. The problem arises when the ac unit is turned on-there is obviously a surge and right now I don't know what that is-does anyone on the board? One way to address this might be to install a Victron inverter/charger w/the surge compensation feature. The batteries would "cushion" the surge from the starting ac, which should only last a second or two. Does anyone have any thoughts on this scheme?

[Cptn Happy]

Skipmac-I'll be happy to accomodate you, if and when the market ever gets back to 14,000!! As another poster suggested this would probably be practical only to cool the boat down before retiring for the evening-maybe an hour of operation. Then open her up and turn on the fans.

[skipmac]

If the market gets back to 14,000 and my 101K turns back into a 401K I'll just buy a setup for both of us.

The cool down option and switch to fan would probably be best for long term. As good as the Hondas are I don't think they will last long under continuous duty use. But on one of those really hot tropical nights or some anchorage where the mosquitoes drift out to the boat I think I would be happy to run that system all night.

When we were living aboard in S FL and the islands a friend rigged up a great boat fan. Took a small window fan out of the metal frame, cut a piece of Plexiglass that fit exactly in the forward hatch and mounted the fan in the hatch. Set it to blow up and it would pull a great breeze through the whole boat. Also since it was blowing up it would stay reasonably dry if a light rain came by in the middle of the night and was low power enough to run off a small inverter. Almost as good as an AC and lots cheaper.

Originally Posted by Cptn Happy

Skipmac-I'll be happy to accomodate you, if and when the market ever gets back to 14,000!! As another poster suggested this would probably be practical only to cool the boat down before retiring for the evening-maybe an hour of operation. Then open her up and turn on the fans.

[bobfnbw]

Originally Posted by 1960cjj

Bob,
I couldn't find the pictures but here is an example that I got from the web.

generator soundproof box

Craig

Thanks craig.
Seems kind of large for the honda, but I guess you could go with a smaller box.

On a side note, been looking at the Yamaha's as well. They look good too.
The 2400 has more watts, for the same price as the honda 2000.
Anyone has experience with this generator ?

[jlogan]

During the aftermath of hurrican Gustav last year, I ran 2 Eu2000's for about 300 hours. Bought the 6 gallon extended run tanks, which are nothing more than outboard motor 6 gallon tanks with the modified gas cap for the honda. Changed the oil every 3 days, they ran 24 hours a day, burned very little fuel. I ran a 5000 btu airconditioner on one and my refrigeration and lights and fans on the other. Did not try to synchronize them with a plug, but connected one to my house main and the other with a large extension cord.

Serviced them before storing, all that I could see was a little carbon on the plug (new plug installed).

I would be very concerned about putting them in any sort of box that let the heat build up in them. They are inverter units, which means they use electronics to turn dc voltage into a very clean ac voltage. Heat is the enemy of longevity in electronics. Also, there are some plastic parts inside the engine on the eu2000's, and excess heat will defintely make a difference in longevity there.

I have seen a cradle arrangement made for a (large) boat in which the eu2000 was hung from the boom, no vibration transmitted through the boat, but you would have to watch out for rain. They are definitely not waterproof.

I have a 16k ac on my boat, but have not tried to run it. Seems to me the eu2000 would have to run wide open to work, which definitely increases the noise and fuel usage. When run at 1200 watts or so, they are quiet and burn very little fuel.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by jlogan

... Bought the 6 gallon extended run tanks, which are nothing more than outboard motor 6 gallon tanks with the modified gas cap for the honda...

Exactly - just drill out the vent (on a spare cap), and insert a brass fitting to accept an outboard day tank hose.

See the DIY Extended Run Conversion:
➥ Extended run fuel tank for Homda inverter generators.

[bobfnbw]

As usual Gord, you are a wealth of information.
Thanks for the link
Bob