Honda EU2000 or Harbor Freight Predator?

[Opie91]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

There was an extensive product review in QST magazine comparing the Honda with cheaper clones which confirmed the noise, both audible and RF generated, being much higher with the clones. It confirmed that the Honda reigns superior in every category after extensive testing.

What it doesn't show is the power of rationalizing buying decisions based on price rather than value. Or the compelling need to affirm past choices.

Given the empirical data, plastic parts, lack of availability for repair parts and propensity for breaking down, I would never recommend buying anything from HF except maybe a crowbar.

Its comparing a Cadillac to a Kia. How can you. The Honda is by far a superior machine. Does that mean the HF is useless? Absolutely not. If your a marina guy and spend 30 days a year on the hook, the HF unit will probably get the job done.

One good thing about the HF generator, is its not likely to be stolen!

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

I agree, now that the Honda EU20i has been superseded by the EU22i the crown will pass smoothly to it......



As for the HF line? can't say i have ever heard of or seen them down my way

US chain of bargain tool stores.

[Painless]

Interestingly, the Cruise RO Watermakers will work with a Honda 2000 generator but for some reason not with a Yamaha 2000 or other brands.....I texted Rich at RO and he said he has spoken to Yamaha etc. and explained the issue and they say they are exactly equals. He doesn't understand why the Yamahas etc. don't work? I asked him if there was a way to modify the Yamaha (as I already have one) and he didn't know. He is a real good resource and has no "skin" in the generator game.

[john61ct]

Inverter electrical output can differ qualitatively as well as in watts output.

Shape of the wave on an oscilloscope, closer to true Sine shape is better than sharp angled approximation.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by mjgill1

Since we're on the subject of these generators, how are you hooking it up to your shore power? What kind of adapter? Two 120's to a single or one 120 adapter for your shore power cable?



Thanks,

I’m not sure what you’re asking.

I built a 20amp male plug to a 30 amp female plug pigtail cord that attached directly to the generator or to an extension cord for other uses.

[captainstubbie]

was looking at the Honda units yest. no longer the 2000, now the 2200. supposedly same engine, just higher output generator... maybe that will fix some a/c start up issues for some cruisers?

[Maine Sail]

Don't focus on the specs or price and do your homework figuring out where you will get it serviced and repaired and where you can find parts for it first. The total cost of the unit can only be determined by its reliability and ability to be repaired.

Our neighbor up at our ski place bought the Predator 2000W suitcase generator.. The first storm it ran fine, I was actually a bit surprised, but it was noticeably louder, or put more aptly, made a more irritating pitched tone, than our Honda EU2K does. His generator shed is about 300' away, though thick woods, and we could hear his generator over ours very easily.

At first I was feeling a bit like we overpaid for the Honda. We lose power at the mountain quite a bit, as our place is pretty remote. When we lose power it's sometimes a day to two before we get it back. On four occasions, last winter alone, we lost power for more than 8 hours at a stretch.

In late Jan, during a big storm, our neighbor came knocking. His brand new Harbor Freight suitcase generator was dead. He'd used it four times for a total of about 25 hours. We only use the Honda to power the fridge and LED lighting so I lent him 150' of 10GA extension cord and he added about 200' of his own and he had power for his fridge too. Both of us can or do heat with wood so the load on our generators is pretty minimal.

The last time I spoke with him he had spent months trying to find a place to repair his HFT generator. HFT would not take it back, service it etc..

-Tried HFT support line, and the store manager, and they were of zero help, also would not take it back. Said HFT actually lists engine parts but can't get them or does not actually stock them.

-Did research and discovered it was a Honda knock off engine so called every Honda parts and equipment dealer only to be told "we can't repair that". Finally one dealer explained to him that they are not allowed to work on any Chonda engines or they risk losing their Honda dealer status. Can't blame Honda for being upset that the Chinese have copied/stolen/cheapened their engine designs..

-Tried every small engine shop he could find. No one said they could get parts nor were any of them willing to even work on it (without even looking at it they told him flat out no). They only guy who was willing said he could take a look at the carb but if any gaskets failed while opening it he was doubtful he could get a replacement.

-Finally found a shop in CT reportedly able to repair his HFT generator. Drove from Northern Maine to CT, dropped it off, drove home, drove back to CT to pick it up (that's a lot of gas $$$ in a Ford F-250) only to find out the part that broke was a valve spring. Repair guy could not get parts for the HFT/Predator engine so substituted a valve spring from another Chinese "Chonda" (Honda knock off) and called it good (the actual Honda valve spring was a larger gauge).

-Ran the generator for perhaps another 5 hours and it quit again.

In late September of this year I noticed he had a new Generac..... For what he paid for the HFT, the trip to CT, all his time, and then the Generac purchase he could have simply bought a Honda in the first place and saved a few hundred. FWIW in the 15-16 or so years I've owned an EU2000 it has never needed a single repair. While it will not produce its rated 1600W, before over heating, it is close and depending upon outdoor temp it can do 1525W to about 1560W continuously. Not bad for an early model..

This past fall my brother and I were up North trimming out the bunk-house we built for the kids. I had grabbed a HFT air hose, for the camp, to keep costs down. How bad can an air hose be, right? Wrong! The POS air hose failed at the ferrule in the middle of the project.. Because of the remote location of the cabin, and lack of retail locations such as a Home Depot, ACE Hardware etc., and our calendars and lack of time available to dedicate for work weekends, the least expensive air hose we could find was a Bostich. It was $69.00! If we add the cost of the replacement hose bought, under duress, to the HFT hose we get $69.00 + $23.00 = $92.00 actual air hose cost. Stung again by HFT! D'oh......

This "cost saving" $23.00 Harbor Freight air hose was used two times before it failed at the paper thin ferrule. Not such a cost savings....

Moral- See first paragraph...

[Tortuga's Lie]

Mainesail brings up the most valuable point to all of this rationalization over buying HF tools: TIME. Yes, you can buy three HF tools for the price of a quality name brand tool but it's the time and effort to go buy a replacement or return the tool that really counts not to mention the inconvenience of stopping in the middle of a job because your HF wrench just snapped in half (yes, I have had this happen and vowed never to waste my $$ and buy junk again).

[Lake-Effect]

Mainesail pretty much covered what I was going to say. And in regards to your boat... if your generator packs it in at a remote anchorage, there are fewer places to borrow power from, or to get it fixed.

I do frequently buy HF-grade and other no-name imported stuff (in Canada our HF equivalent is Princess Auto), but with eyes open. Some of it is justified because it's infrequently used, and some of the stuff are diamonds in the rough. I know a boat detailer who buys/exchanges 2 or 3 HF polishers every time he goes to the States; they last a year usually and then he exchanges them.

I bought a factory-refurbished knock-off 900W generator for less than CDN$150, and it's been fine as something for home emergencies, camping, loaner. But if I was equipping a boat for extended cruising, it would be the Honda - for its track record as being dependable, AND for its repairability.

Whatever generator, I'd put about 100 hard hours and a couple of oil changes into it before trusting it completely.

It's kind of funny to be worrying about saving a few hundred on a vital piece of gear that should last years. If HF made a liferaft, would you buy one?

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Painless

Interestingly, the Cruise RO Watermakers will work with a Honda 2000 generator but for some reason not with a Yamaha 2000 or other brands.....I texted Rich at RO and he said he has spoken to Yamaha etc. and explained the issue and they say they are exactly equals. He doesn't understand why the Yamahas etc. don't work? I asked him if there was a way to modify the Yamaha (as I already have one) and he didn't know. He is a real good resource and has no "skin" in the generator game.

It might be related to how clean the wave form is as with inverters. Honda produces a nice sine wave.

[Tortuga's Lie]

With our recent power outages here on the East coast, we should start seeing feedback on which generators held up well and which ones crapped out.
I have a Honda 6500 for home and a Honda 2000 for the boat but had it at home for winter storage. I lent the 2000 to my neighbor to run his refrigerator and some lights etc....no problems and much quieter than the Honda 6500 that I was using. We were without power for three full days.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

There was an extensive product review in QST magazine comparing the Honda with cheaper clones which confirmed the noise, both audible and RF generated, being much higher with the clones. It confirmed that the Honda reigns superior in every category after extensive testing.

What it doesn't show is the power of rationalizing buying decisions based on price rather than value. Or the compelling need to affirm past choices.

Given the empirical data, plastic parts, lack of availability for repair parts and propensity for breaking down, I would never recommend buying anything from HF except maybe a crowbar.

Well, just because something is better doesn't mean it's optimum. If you can buy a generator that is almost as durable (and durable enough) and a little louder (and quiet enough) for half the price, that can be a correct and rational buying decision for many people. Not saying that's the case here necessarily -- see MaineSail's story above -- but just knowing that something is better does not mean that you know enough to make a rational buying decision.

We don't have HF over here, but we have a somewhat upscale version of it called Machine Mart. For critical applications, sometimes cheap or even mid-market tools are not good enough. For example -- crimpers. My crimpers cost $300, and what I could buy even for $200 was simply not good enough. Screwdrivers -- even quality mid-market screwdrivers are just not good enough for me, for objective reasons -- they wear out too fast, they don't grip as well, etc.. So it is rational for me to spend money on really good screwdrivers (German Wera ones. But I buy a lot of tools for less critical applications from Machine Mart. Results are mixed, but often astonishingly good. I have had some Machine Mart tools ("Clark" is their house brand) for going on 10 years of fairly heavy use. Some of it is carp which gets tossed quickly, but that's actually rare and usually visible before you buy.

[jbinbi]

About 6 yrs ago I bought a kipor 2000. A knock off of Honda, about 60 percent of the cost. They were the rave of the rv forums. Supposedly just as good. Mine takes a ton of pulls to start. Always does, from initial date. Called them, said it shouldn't, had it serviced. Once it starts, it runs great. And once started, restarts easy. I don't use it often, it is my backup generator for the house when we lose power, or when the boat is on the hard and the 4 reachable outlets in the boatyard have 20 cords plugged in.

So I always put stability in my tank, I start it every 3 months for 30 minutes of run time and let it run dry.

Wish I bought a Honda! The $400 in savings was not worth the aggravation when I need it in a pinch. Buy once, cry once.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by captainstubbie

was looking at the Honda units yest. no longer the 2000, now the 2200. supposedly same engine, just higher output generator... maybe that will fix some a/c start up issues for some cruisers?

The new EU22i uses the Honda GXR120 engine which is 20% larger in capacity than the EU20i (GX100 engine)

[s/v Moondancer]

I have the Ryobi 2K it was $700 and it was all the Home Depot in Guam had in stock and my main gen needed parts.

It runs my Cruise RO Watermaker and my Splendide washing machine simultaneously.

I have run it 3 hours/day for 3 weeks without problems.