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Old 26-11-2009, 06:54   #1
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Honda eu2000, Iota 55 Charger, Trojan T105 Batteries

I have read various threads concerning the Honda eu2000i generator. I have a specific question that concerns its use with the Iota 55 amp charger for charging a bank of two 6 volt Trojan T-105 golf cart batteries wired in a series for a total of 12 volts, 225 amp hours.

I have read on other threads that many cruisers use the Honda eu2000i with the Iota 75 amp charger to recharge significantly larger banks.

Based on the generous advice that Alan Wheeler has provided on the sticky at the top of this forum, it appears that the 55 amp charger would be the right sized charger for a modest bank of 225 amp hours. Alan says that in charging flooded batteries (such as the Trojans), you want a charger that is somewhere between 20% and 25% of the total amp hour capacity of the bank.

Does it sound like I'm on the right track with the set up I've described?

Many thanks,
Roscoe

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Old 26-11-2009, 07:43   #2
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Roscoe,

Yes. That will work fine. The DLS-55/IQ4 won't overtax the EU2000i, and it's about the right size for a bank of two T-105s.

I actually have exactly that setup on my boat, for my dedicated windlass batteries (though the charger isn't powered by a Honda generator).

And, at home for my radios, I have a similar setup of two T-105s and a DLS-45/IQ4.

These two installations have functioned flawlessly for almost five years now.

You should be fine.

Bill
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Old 26-11-2009, 13:26   #3
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Thanks for you your help Bill. Glad to know that you have met success with this. I have a follow-up question. I have calculated my daily consumption to be about 36-40 amp hours. Using Don Casey's suggestion in This Old Boat, I have multiplied that number by 2.5 to determine that I need a battery (or bank of batteries) with a capacity of around 100 amp hours. At first, I considered a single Group 31 gel cell to be my best choice for this. After some more reading, I have come to believe that two Trojan T-105 batteries with 225 amp hours will be a better choice. The Trojans will cost about the same as the single gel cell and will provide me with more amp hours than I really need. This will be less taxing on the bank and should allow me to charge the bank more easily.

Does it sound like I'm making the right choice in going with the Trojans at 225 amps as opposed to the single Group 31 gel cell?

Thanks again,
Roscoe

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Old 26-11-2009, 14:18   #4
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Roscoe,
With such a low requirement for power have you considered solar? I have a 35ah/day requirement which I supply with a single group27 and 2 50 watt panels. I also have an EU1000i for AC loads, drills and such, and a 10amp smart charger which I seldom use. Dave
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Old 26-11-2009, 15:29   #5
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Generators run most efficiently when they are under a full or near-full load. Where does it say that a 2000W generator and a 55amp charger is 'best' for 2 Trojan T-105 batteries?, which at roughly 225 amp hours is considered 'small' when it comes to battery capacity (although robust due to high battery quality).

It seems to me that one could go much smaller (1000w) with both the generator and charger and still be perfectly fine with the 2 Trojan T-105 (or equivalent) battery bank. For instance, the Honda 2000i only puts out 16.8A @120v (8A @ 12VDC),

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/p...elid=EU2000IAN

so why the need for a 55A charger, exactly? Clearly the 55A charger is way overkill for the 2000i, since the 2000i doesn't put out anywhere near 55A. Also clear is that a 55A charger is way overkill for a 225AH (small) battery bank (even if the recommended generator was putting out 55A which it isn't), and any one of the following would work just fine:

http://www.batterystuff.com/battery-...rine-chargers/

The point is, it's bad enough that boat parts are over-priced without throwing even more money needlessly into the water.
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Old 26-11-2009, 15:43   #6
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One other thing to consider when selecting a generator is 2 cycle or 4 cycle engine. The 4 cycle engines are considered to be 'quieter', although not by much these days. With a 4 cycle engine you don't need to mix the gas/oil either. However, with a 4 cycle engine you do need to change the oil regularly...something along the lines of every 25-50 hours of operation, usually, for generators. With a 2 cycle engine there is no need to regularly change the oil, as the oil for lubrication is mixed right in with the gas. Also keep in mind that 2 cycle generators are less than 1/2 the cost of the average 4 cycle counterpart, and only a fraction of the cost of the very expensive Honda and Yamaha brands. That cost difference translates to a heck-of-lot different reaction if your generator gets fried or stolen.
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Old 26-11-2009, 16:04   #7
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Not Sure, I don't quite follow your logic in sizing the gen. output to the charger output. We don't know the AC requirement for the 55amp charger but I'm sure the 2000 watt generator can handle it. The EU series is unique in that they produce DC power which is inverted to 110 VAC electronically. The unit adjusts the motor RPM to provide the current necessary for the load, it does not run at constant RPM. They are highly efficient at all AC loads. They are extremely quiet, somewhere around 56db if memory serves, and quieter at low loads. I can't believe anyone with a conscience would consider a 2 cycle motor for anything except maybe a chainsaw or weedeater and even then the electric alternatives should be considered. Dave
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Old 26-11-2009, 16:36   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveOnCudjoe View Post
Not Sure, I don't quite follow your logic in sizing the gen. output to the charger output. We don't know the AC requirement for the 55amp charger but I'm sure the 2000 watt generator can handle it. The EU series is unique in that they produce DC power which is inverted to 110 VAC electronically. The unit adjusts the motor RPM to provide the current necessary for the load, it does not run at constant RPM. They are highly efficient at all AC loads. They are extremely quiet, somewhere around 56db if memory serves, and quieter at low loads. I can't believe anyone with a conscience would consider a 2 cycle motor for anything except maybe a chainsaw or weedeater and even then the electric alternatives should be considered. Dave
Well, Dave, if you want to spend $1000 on a 2000i generator then go right ahead, don't let me stop you. And Ditto for $250 for the 55A charger. My point is that neither of these over-priced items is necessary to charge 2 $110 Trojan T-105 batteries, a simple 1000w generator for a few hundred dollars and a marine battery charger for $75 will be more than sufficient.

And if you look at the specs on the generators, the Honda 2000i puts out 53-59db (and many users claim that its much louder), while the little 2 cycles put out around 66-68db...not that much of a difference really. Besides, changing the oil in a generator on a boat is to me more of a pain-in-the-azz than simply mixing 2 cycle oil with the gas.

And we still have the issue with theft or damage. The 2000i owner will be crying in their Cheerios while the 2-cycle generator owner will have already replaced their generator and still have $300 extra in their pocket for the next time its stolen.

And you still haven't explained how a generator that puts out 16A (Honda 2000i) needs a 55A charger like the Iota.
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Old 26-11-2009, 16:56   #9
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Here's the specs on the Iota 55A:
Iota 12 Volt 55 Amp w/IQ-4 | BatteryStuff.com
As you can see, it's 55A 'surge' amps. It conveniently doesn't say what the actual continuous amp output is. It certainly isn't 55A. I'd be surprised if it was half that. And since it's only rated at 20A input, it wouldn't surprise me if continuous output was held at a max of 20A also.
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Old 26-11-2009, 18:01   #10
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Roscoe,
I read up on that Iota 55 A charger, what a nice piece of gear and even American made. It's more than you need since it also supplies a clean 12VDC supply as well as smart charging current to maximize battery life. The Honda EU 1000i and 2000i are equally quality units, I own both in addition to the 3300. The 1000 and 2000 can not be heard from 30ft away at full load, 40 ft for the 3300. This keeps the anchorage happy. In addition, the clean power from a quality charger will not interfer with radio signals also maintaining peace in close quarters. I suspect cheap generators are stollen because they stink and are so noisy they make people nuts. I've had my 1000 6yrs, I change the oil every so often and it takes about 5 minutes and 1 qt of oil. No theft problem, most don't even know it's there and I stow it inside when away. Quality equiptment is a joy to own and ultimately a value. I'd still think about solar if I were you, 50watt panels $350 ea and a regulator about $75. Mine are mounted above the cockpit as a hard bimini top. Dave
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Old 26-11-2009, 18:11   #11
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Dave, I'm interested in learning more about your use of the Group 27 gel cell with the solar panel. This would certainly make things more simple, it seems. NotSure, I hear what you're saying about the overkill issue for a 225 bank. I'll explain what led me to that idea.

There are various threads on this forum that discuss the use of the Honda eu1000i and Honda eu2000i generators. It appears there is a consensus that the 1000 model can handle Iota 30 amp chargers, Xantrex 40 amp chargers, and even Iota 45 amp chargers. It also appears that many believe the Iota 55 and 75 are appropriate for the Honda 2000 model. Many people have written that when it comes to choosing between the Honda 1000 and 2000, it makes better sense to go for the 2000 model. It doesn't cost that much more and it has the same decibel rating as the 1000 (59dB). The best thing is that is so much more powerful and not that much bigger. Also, I can use this extra power at home in emergency situations.

My main concern in using a generator is being a good neighbor. I would like to use it for a minimal amount of time during daylight hours, either at the beginning of the day or at the end - simple for bringing the bank back up, not for watching TV, etc. I am accustomed to a minimalist lifestyle when outdoors and wish to preserve this as much as possible on the water. At the same rate, I would like to have that power there when I need it. The setup, then, with the Honda 2000 model seems to make sense.

I am wondering, though, how much more quickly the Honda eu2000i with the Iota 55 amp charger would recharge a T-105, 225 ah bank as opposed to the Honda eu1000i with the 30 or 45 amp charger. Does anyone have any ideas?

Many thanks, fellas, for any follow-up help on this question.

Best regards,
Roscoe
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Old 26-11-2009, 19:07   #12
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Roscoe,

Sorry...all full of turkey and such, so didn't read the earlier posts until now.

Sorry, too, to say that the posts from Not Sure are VERY wide of the mark. His math and his reasoning are all way off.

He confuses amps and watts and volts and inputs and outputs and surge and maximum and clearly is very much in the dark about all this battery stuff.

You have it right: if you want to drive a 55A Iota you need a EU2000i; the smaller EU1000 will not do the trick. Iota chargers in fact DO put out near maximum current for as long as needed in the bulk charging phase. Typically, their average output is much higher than many "marine" battery chargers.

You're also right that in order to reduce charging time you want the largest battery charger consistent with the size of your battery bank. For two T-105's, that's somewhere in the 50-70 amp range. If these were AGMs, you'd want an even larger charger, since AGMs can accept just about all the amperage you can throw at them.

Gotta get back to the kids, grandkids, and the Giants/Broncos :-)

Bill
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Old 26-11-2009, 19:16   #13
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Roscoe,
My F-31 is very weight sensitive so I keep everything at a minimum when I can.My battery is an AGM 92AH. I don't like to discharge below 50% and bulk charging takes you to 85% so you get about 35% of the bank as usable energy. My needs are 35AH/day with auto pilot which I don't have to use if power is low. On days when you don't use much(at anchor) she tops off. 2x 50watt panels produce 2.9A ea for 5.8A total x6hrs for nearly 35AH/day. Now it's not 100% efficient but close. The sun doesn't shine every day but I don't sail everyday, especially if the sun's not shining. Honda outboard and EU1000 for backup. This is not an ideal system but if I keep my weight down I can reach at 100-110% of true wind speed and that's a rush! When I bought the 1000 there was no 2000 which is the better buy. Bulk phase charging is fast and efficient, it's absorption and float to get to 100% that takes a while, not worth it with a generator in my mind. BTW, sound preasure(db) is geometric not linear. 65 is much louder than 55 and ratings are usually at full load, so for a given load the 2000 will be quieter than the 1000. Hope this helps, Dave
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Old 26-11-2009, 19:25   #14
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the iota 55 amp charger use 13 amps, probably lees as the batteries top up I have 2 55amp with a smart controller and a 500 amp battery bank This setup charges quickly so less gen set run time= more quiet time
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Old 26-11-2009, 20:50   #15
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Ohms Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Sure View Post
And we still have the issue with theft or damage. The 2000i owner will be crying in their Cheerios while the 2-cycle generator owner will have already replaced their generator and still have $300 extra in their pocket for the next time its stolen.

And you still haven't explained how a generator that puts out 16A (Honda 2000i) needs a 55A charger like the Iota.

Here is where I might be able to lend some advise. First of all ohms law says amps x volts=watts. So 55amps x 12volts=660 watts. That is what the battery charger will put out.

20amps X 110 volts=2200 watts. That is the most that the charger will need.

You are probably safe useing the 2000 watt generator, if that is all you are using it for. I would not use a smaller one as you might damage the charger.

Now for the difference in costs. The Honda Eu generators are safe to use around electronics. The cheaper ones may not be. A cheaper generator may put out surges of power wich will damage sensitive electronics. If you are only useing it for power tools, this is not an issue, but if you are powering the TV, Computer, CD, or DVD it will damage it. So don't for get to include the costs of replacing your electronics when you are pricing generators.
One way around this is to run your electronics off of a quality inverter and then use "cheaper" equipment to charge the batteries.

Noise Factor- I've used a Honda Eu 1000 for several years now. We could stand next to it and carry on a conversation with out raising our voices.

Fuel efficiency- I think the brochure for the EU 1000 states that it will run 6 hours (not sure) on a tank of gas.(about 1/2 gallon) My experience is that it can run a TV and a 60 watt bulb (about 300 watts total) for 10 hours on a tank of fuel.

One more thing about Generators. To little power can cause as much damage as to much power. Make sure you are not overloading the generator it is the appliances that will suffer. And before you turn off your generator, unplug the cable or turn off the breaker that is between it and the load. As a generator winds down it is still producing power but at a lower level.

Hope that helps
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