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Old 08-12-2017, 05:06   #61
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Re: Honda 2000 wat generator vs yanmar with 150 amp alternator

Thanks.

Yes, basically just allows a bit of genny time-shifting when running, need lots of solar to keep up.
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:34   #62
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Re: Honda 2000 wat generator vs yanmar with 150 amp alternator

The Best place I know of to buy a Honda 2000 online is from www.mayberrys.com
Free shipping and no sales tax.
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:50   #63
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Re: Honda 2000 wat generator vs yanmar with 150 amp alternator

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The Best place I know of to buy a Honda 2000 online is from www.mayberrys.com
Free shipping and no sales tax.
I just bought one from Northern Tool last month when they had them on sale. $100 off the $1,099 price plus a $100 gift card brought it down to $899 plus free shipping. At the time I tried to get a quote from Mayberrys. They don't give their price on their website so you have to fill out a bunch of information just to get a quote, which I did. They replied that someone would get back to me but nobody ever did.
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:59   #64
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Re: Honda 2000 wat generator vs yanmar with 150 amp alternator

Pick up the phone and call Mayberrys...easy pleasy...forget the internet forms and ordering, these guys are old school phone ordering. I must have sent at least 100 water maker customers to them who needed a Honda and ive bought several myself.
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:04   #65
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Re: Honda 2000 wat generator vs yanmar with 150 amp alternator

Not that you're likely to need it for this item, but FFR how is their return policy in practice?
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:56   #66
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Re: Honda 2000 wat generator vs yanmar with 150 amp alternator

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
There is one other difference. The non companion model has a 12v direct charge source that the Companion does not.
Itís not much of a charger, nothing to charge your bank, more of a trickle charger, but itís a great way to add a Hobbs meter to a Honda as most Hobbs meters are low voltage DC, usually something like 10V to 30V or so
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Thatís about the only use I can think of for the dc output!
They are useful for charging a starting battery in an emergency. In some situations that can save you from carrying a separate battery charger. In a marine installation, where you will have a large battery charger installed, they give you a means of getting at least some 12v power if your battery charger has failed and you cannot or do not wish to run the diesel just to charge the battery.
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:26   #67
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Re: Honda 2000 wat generator vs yanmar with 150 amp alternator

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.... my question is would that in essence make my engine able to power a 30amp ac circuit provided I had an inverter? Just like the Honda 2000? If the alt is rated at 150 amps at 14v thatís 2100 Watts right? So basically its just missing the inverter and the outlet? Minus the wear on and load on the motor etc. from a numerical standpoint....the theory of it interests me
Here are the facts you need to know.

1) As pointed out upthread, 12v alternator ratings are optimistic. The output degrades as temperature goes up and as RPMs go down. Balmar has output curves here:

Alternator Output Curves | Balmar

You'll get maybe 100-120 amps in typical warmer conditions.

2) The system as a whole -- engine, alternator, cabling, battery, inverter -- has to be impeccably designed, installed, and maintained. 100 amps continuous is a lot. There has to be sufficient ventilation in the engine compartment to keep the alternator running cool. The cable has to be properly sized and the connections have to be made properly, the wire secured so it will not move, and the terminals torqued regularly. The inverter has to be able to handle the load and it too is going to kick out some heat and will need sufficient ventilation.

3) 12v alternators do not have current regulators. If you have a discharged battery and a big inverter running an air conditioner, your alternator will put out 200 amps. Even if it's a 150 amp alternator. It will keep doing this until it overheats and fails. Usually the diode bridge fails first. That is why it is important to size the alternator to the load.

4) There are people who run very large inverter loads, like air conditioners or an electric range or clothes dryer. If you are going to do this, you should consider switching to a 24v system. This will cut the amp draws in half and the system will perform much better and run cooler. Inevitably you will end up with some 12v components, which adds complexity but isn't the end of the world.

5) Most "high amp" alternators are overwound -- that is, the current-carrying stator windings are made of fewer strands of larger wire. Usually the diode bridge is upgraded also. But you are better off using a larger frame alternator if it will fit the physical space. The larger the frame, the cooler the alternator will run, the lower RPMs it will require, and the longer it will last at a given output level. Consider something like the Balmar 97EHD or 98 if they will fit physically. Yes, they're expensive, but they will last in that application.

6) Consider a remotely mounted diode bridge. Balmar doesn't offer these but there are other vendors that have alternators set up that way. 12v/24v alternators produce 3 phase AC. It is converted to DC by a diode bridge made up of 6 large diodes. Usually these are on the back of the alternator case, where they are exposed to the high heat levels of the engine compartment. If they are relocated to a cool location, they will last longer and are easier to replace if that becomes necessary. This doesn't seem to have caught on in the marine world but there are automotive aftermarket places that sell kits: https://alternatorparts.com/quicktif...rectifier.html

9) Be sure your battery bank is large enough. You should be sizing the battery bank amp hours to about 4x the maximum load. So for a typical air conditioner running through an inverter you'll draw maybe 150 amps. 4x that is 600 amp-hours which would be 6 or 8 group 27 deep cycle batteries. That will be enough to deal with the starting surge and situations where the engine is stopped or idling briefly.

10) As indicated upthread, at these power levels you need to have some means of unloading the engine while starting or idling at no-wake speeds. Usually this is a switch that disconnects that field wire to the alternator.

11) If air conditioning is your main goal, a possibility is to have an engine-driven compressor in parallel with the 120v one. This configuration is commonly used by ambulances and if you look at suppliers for that market you can see some alternatives. You have to run refrigerant lines to the engine and they are fiddly (and expensive) to design and install but they will work great and may very well be more reliable than a large inverter setup.
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:34   #68
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Re: Honda 2000 wat generator vs yanmar with 150 amp alternator

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They are useful for charging a starting battery in an emergency. In some situations that can save you from carrying a separate battery charger. In a marine installation, where you will have a large battery charger installed, they give you a means of getting at least some 12v power if your battery charger has failed and you cannot or do not wish to run the diesel just to charge the battery.
I carry one of these on the boat as a spare charger.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/marin...0?recordNum=22
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:48   #69
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Re: Honda 2000 wat generator vs yanmar with 150 amp alternator

Great points, but some statements overly general.

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12v alternator ratings are optimistic. The output degrades as temperature goes up and as RPMs go down.
Yes but there are large frame alts that will put out, say 400A rated, actual 350+A all day long in 100+į degree weather, 200+ at 1200rpm.

Quote:
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12v alternators do not have current regulators. If you have a discharged battery and a big inverter running an air conditioner, your alternator will put out 200 amps. Even if it's a 150 amp alternator. It will keep doing this until it overheats and fails. Usually the diode bridge fails first. That is why it is important to size the alternator to the load.
Again, generalization, EcoTech has excellent controls.

With a regular Leece Neville or big Delco, just fit a good VR like Balmar's MC-614, or Sterling, Mark Grasser, maybe Ample Power, plenty of options with fine-grained current derating, allowing good output while keeping heat issues under control.
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Old 08-12-2017, 13:53   #70
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Re: Honda 2000 wat generator vs yanmar with 150 amp alternator

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3) 12v alternators do not have current regulators. If you have a discharged battery and a big inverter running an air conditioner, your alternator will put out 200 amps. Even if it's a 150 amp alternator. It will keep doing this until it overheats and fails. Usually the diode bridge fails first. That is why it is important to size the alternator to the load.
they certainly are current limited. I have never seen an alt put out more then rated power. even on a losing battle. IE 200a inverter load. 150a alt is running ~ 140a. battery net loss -60a. voltage 12.5v or so because it's still draining. no way for that alternator to put out more even though battery needs it. if it could put out 200a in that situation, then it would be a 200a rated alt, not a 150. that is also why fuses are not needed at alternaotr end. because they are current limited.
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Old 08-12-2017, 13:56   #71
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Re: Honda 2000 wat generator vs yanmar with 150 amp alternator

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they certainly are current limited. I have never seen an alt put out more then rated power. even on a losing battle. IE 200a inverter load. 150a alt is running under 150a. battery net loss -60a. voltage 12.5v or so because it's still draining. no way for that alternator to put out more even though battery needs it. that is also why fuses are not needed at alternaotr end. because they are current limited.


Bingo!

You can connect the alternator field wire directly to the battery and get no more current than the alt rating. Probably significantly less as the alt heats up.
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Old 08-12-2017, 14:04   #72
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Re: Honda 2000 wat generator vs yanmar with 150 amp alternator

Of course they "can't" put out more than rated.

But it is true that inexpensive stock VRs *don't* limit the lower current ranges, when heat becomes a problem.

High CAR chemistry like LFP can thus just burn out a stock alt.

Many just drop the voltage, in effect stop putting out any useful charging voltage at all.

Balmar's "belt manager" and small engine modes maintain proper voltage levels, and scale current output back when appropriate to protect the alt diodes or battery from over temp.
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