Home refrigerator in catamaran?

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

I don't even know what all that means.
All I will say is our fridge has been running to ten years and on this particular victron 5kva inverter for 2.5 years without a problem.

That means, the victron inverter itself burns around 36W when idle and no load is connected.

It works perfect / powers any 240V device with no issues, it just burns unnecessary energy when on and nothing uses any significant power (stand by devices)

[mako]

Just thought I’d add this about adding extra insulation around a domestic refrig. The factory reps I’ve chatted with always dissuade me from doing so and claim that an air gap is needed all around.

I’ve never been happy with that answer. But I got in touch with a Samsung engineer who stated the following:

“In reference to your request for information on the location of the condenser coils on the RB41J refrigerator. The main condenser is located in the lower rear compartment next to the compressor. There is also an additional anticondensation hot pipe in the insulation of each side and around the front edge of the cabinet. You may notice that these areas become quite warm when the appliance is operating and is quite normal.”

So if you allow for airflow to the rear of the enclosure then nice thick insulation board could be added to the sides, top and bottom. Perhaps install a small computer fan to help air circulation. Could also insulate the front doors as well if attached to an opening wood panel.

[CatNewBee]

Both are right. You need some airflow to the condenser and compressor, also the defroster need to cool down when finished his job, so airflow around makes the air volume bigger and reduces energy consumption while cooling, on the other hand a better isolation prevents the necessity of cooling up front.

If you can manage the airflow dedicated to the aggregates, you can improve the insulation on the other parts with no issues, otherwise just some air around helps to save energy.

[Jef & Marin, Netherlands]

Cat NewBee,
You wrote:
We are EU based, 240V single phase 50Hz. When going for the fridge/freezer I would add a small pure sine wave inverter matching the demand ( I guess 200...300W would be sufficient, but I will measure this first by hooking up to the Victron and checking the gauges on the computer) I have a 2kVA MassSine from Mastervolt and a 5kVA Victron Quattro, but they use to much power when idle, so I turn them only on when needed. A smaller inverter would draw less power idling when the fridge compressor does not cool.

A Liebherr fridge is on its way from Europe. Actually it is in the A+++ -20% category.

Maybe the following is useful to you:

I decided not to use a small inverter running full time. We have probably the same Mastervolt Mass Sine 2000 you have, and will have that one running full time.

- Standby power is only 6W, and many small inverters use almost the same.
- Fridges need a big inverter because of the high start-up current needed. I have heard 1000W mentioned even if the fridge only takes 100W. It seems advisable to test with the actual inverter you want to buy.

- The Mastervolt is designed for full time use, with high MTBF, the small inverter you want to buy maybe not
The Mastervolt is a true sine, less chance of damaging equipment than with a standard inverter

- Having the big inverter running full time adds comfort
- We would really have a big problem in the middle of the pacific if the inverter broke down. Watermaker, fridge, breadmaker..... So I am adding a second inverter as backup, actually a combi. This one we only turn on when needed because it takes 9W in standby

- With the Combi and old charger in parallel we will be able to charge batteries 3 times faster! We have enough solar for normal weather, but in heavy overcast we need to start the generator sometimes. I guess you have a similar setup with the Quattro.
- Generally the Victrons take more standby power than the Mastervolts, I noticed

[CatNewBee]

I will consider the MassSine for this, needs some re-wiring.

In the current setup it can be funneled through the Victron using power assist to have 7kVA available if wanted to match the Onan generator capabilities, it can run in master - slave configuration controlled by the Victron macros and relay contacts, so it turns on when the victron measures loads exceeding a set value (e.g. 3.5kVA) and turns off after the victron measures are below a second much lower point for a given time (like 1.5kVA, 10min) to prevent flapping.

[mikedefieslife]

What kind of inverters are you guys using on smaller home fridges?

The 60w compressor on the small 230v fridge immediately trips my Victron 500w inverter. The inter should cope with a surge of 900w. After it trips, the inverter fires back up again, and the fridge runs fine. I'm guessing start up is closer to 1kw, which is a same.

[Jef & Marin, Netherlands]

The fridge has arrived in New Zealand in February. We sold both small refrigerators and installed the new Liebherr IKBP2770.
Should take 7 watts on average, 140 cm high, 230 liters, no freezer.
That is 200 Wh per day, 67kWh per year.

Well, that is the figure that the company gives without opening the fridge. If you drink cold beer power consumption will increase.
The old ones took around 1000 Wh per day, a large part of our power consumption.

The 2 bottom drawers indeed are close to freezing, actually at 1/2 degree centigrade.
It runs well on the 2000 W Mastervolt Mass Sine from 2003.
I have installed a Mastervolt combi to have backup 230V.


We are on a boatyard in Whangarei, New Zealand, so we have no sailing experience with it yet. We ordered thin silicone mats from Aliexpress to put on the glass shelves against sliding. Hopefully this is practical, the friction might be so high that you can't slide the fridge contents around. We can always change.



The previous 12V fridges had a switch on the control panel. I will install a solid state relay, controlled by the 12V switch, to switch the 230V fridge supply.

[Palarran]

The refrigerator install in Palarran has been a real game changer for our life on the boat. We have super solid ice and frozen food and the fresh food stays fresh for an incredible amount of time. I really can't be happier with the results of the install. It was much more expensive to put in than I had anticipated due to me not getting a price before the yard started to remove the old one. I basically got taken to the cleaners on that. And it does use a lot of power. I don't know how much exactly as I don't have an amp meter that will show just the refrigerator draw, but I have to fully recharge my batteries twice per day to keep up with it. We had to do that with our old holding plate system anyway so it's kind of a wash.

[jmh2002]

Looks fantastic. That's a really nice way to cruise

But from a practical point of view I imagine that it also helps cut down on waste, both from spoilt food as well as unnecessary over provisioning.

[Steve_C]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Australia/NZ are about a decade ahead of Europe in refrigeration efficiency and testing and Europe is in turn about a decade ahead of the US. The Oz/NZ testing standards got rolled into IEC 62252 which is now used in both Oz/NZ and Europe. These standards were developed in hopes of obtaining reasonably real-world performance numbers.

This is hilarious!

So Australia/NZ are 20 YEARS ahead of us in the poor old USA of A in "refrigeration efficiency and testing" I should start a business and import some of that 2 decade advanced technology to sell here! I had no idea we were so far behind

In Actuality

https://econation.co.nz/energy-rating/

"Another useful energy efficiency rating label that you will find in New Zealand is ENERGY STAR® . This label is already used in the USA, Canada, Europe, Australia and Asia to help consumers identify the most energy efficient products and appliances. This label is promoted in New Zealand by the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority (EECA).

https://www.energywise.govt.nz/tools/energy-star#/

The ENERGY STAR® label is placed on leading heat pumps, TVs, DVD players, home theatre systems, computer s and office equipment. There are plans to introduce it on dishwashers, washing machines and fridges.

In order to qualify for the ENERGY STAR® label, manufacturers have to prove that their products meet energy efficiency standards set by the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and agreed to by the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority (EECA)."

With today's global markets this technology spreads very fast. Perhaps a very few minutes of Google searches might be in order before spouting off made up nonsense!

[Steve_C]

CatNewBee, I have been looking at L400 listings and came across a picture of a L400 with a fridge very similar to the one you are considering. I have gone back and tried to find the picture, but have not yet been able to find it. I will keep looking.

Please keep us informed about your project. Its sounds like a great upgrade.

Has anyone considered any of the under counter Home units meant to be mounted in the cabinetry of a home kitchen? It certainly seems like they would provide more options considering where to install one.

[mako]

Originally Posted by Steve_C

With today's global markets this technology spreads very fast. Perhaps a very few minutes of Google searches might be in order before spouting off made up nonsense!

I think Dsanduril made his comment "in principle" and actually I would agree that American appliance efficiencies are way behind the rest of the world.

Having lived in America, Europe and New Zealand, it is quite obvious to me that the majority of European (for example) refrigerators are much more efficient per cubic volume than American brands. Same thing with lightbulbs, where fluorescents and then LEDs were rolled out internationally a couple of years ahead of America.

But if you think about it, when we were paying $2.50 a gallon for gas in the US, the Kiwi's were paying $6 and the Europeans as much as $10. So there is stronger motivation. Also the 230v electricity lends itself to higher efficiency, also seen in the split aircon units.

Also just because the Kiwi's are just now adopting ENERGY STAR® labeling does not mean that their appliances have not been much more efficient for years earlier.

But I have noticed nowadays that American A+++ appliances are starting to catch up. But it's not a pissing contest. Everyone should avail themselves of efficient equipment.

[Jef & Marin, Netherlands]

We are now using our Liebherr fridge since half a year. Very very happy with it.

3 experiences I would like to share:
- This model Liebherr IKBP2770 has a gas spring closing the door. It works very well. Despite heavy bottles in the door, it has never opened by motion, and we have had pretty rough weather. The door faces the front of the boat.
- Condensation water is collected in a metal tray on top of the compressor, to evaporate there. In rough waves, this tray overflows. This overflow leaks on part of the wooden interior of the boat where it will in the long run cause damage. We will have to take the fridge out, and install a small hose to the bilge.
- With the boat moving, you need one hand to keep the door from moving and you have only hand hand left to take stuff out. This fridge company, and probably the others as well, supply a 90 degree door-opening-angle-limiter. I am going to order and install this.



I am considering to replace the freezer some time in the future. It is a 100 liter seawater-cooled freezer from 2003. It uses 3.5A @ 12V. It runs more than 90% of the time keeping the temperature on -15 ~ -18 Celsius. That is 400 kWhr/year.

Modern European freezers of similar size on 230V use about 150 kWhr/year. The power consumption advantage is not as big as in case of the fridge. But they can freeze 12 kilos of fish in 24 hours!

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Steve_C

This is hilarious!

So Australia/NZ are 20 YEARS ahead of us in the poor old USA of A in "refrigeration efficiency and testing" I should start a business and import some of that 2 decade advanced technology to sell here! I had no idea we were so far behind....

Sorry I missed this when it was posted, must have been out sailing. EnergyStar is not the be-all end-all of energy ratings. According to the EnergyStar website, in the US, at the time of this writing, the absolute lowest energy usage refrigerator I can get is a Fisher & Paykel (a NZ company!) RB36S. That's a 3.6 cubic foot refrigerator rated at 150kWh/yr energy usage. That's the very lowest energy usage fridge on the whole EnergyStar website, out of 2317 models.

In Europe, I can get the A+++ rated Liebherr K3710, a 12 cubic foot (342l) unit rated to use 75 kWh/yr. For direct comparison the lowest energy 12ft refrigerator on the EnergyStar website is the F&P (again!) RS24S, a 12.7 cubic foot unit rated at 232 kWh/year.

For the small unit that's more than 3x the refrigerated volume at 1/2 the total energy usage. For the same size units that's a 3x reduction in power. So, you tell me, is there a fast, universal dispersion of technology? When I first got my Euro fridge 5 years ago I found the same thing, and it looks like not much has changed. And if you really want to compare apples to apples, take a look for a few of the studies that compare real-world vs. label energy usage. The European labeling standard underestimates real-world values by 11-18%, EnergyStar by somewhat more than that.

[frederic_b]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Interested in this.

I had a look at a Liebherr UIKP 1550 under counter unit. Supposedly at whatever the measured temperature is (probably 5c internal in a 25c environment), the power consumption is listed as 0.168 kWh / 24h. Perhaps my maths is bad, but make that just 168w per 24h period, which is incredible.

Did you get to the end of this? I'm having the same consideration now for a new catamaran.
I don't plan on having any gaz onboard, but the adequate amount of LiFePo4 batteries, so there will be regular 220v appliances instead of 'marine' ones (I tend to agree with a previous comment that what's always 'marinized' is the price).

Anyway, currently juggling with paper Ah and Wk calculation and optimization to set the right electric installation and space allocation.

Should this fridge solution be validated, it looks like quite a good answer : 124 liter capacity + drawer design + low electric consumtion (A++ for home usage). And if it works for the fridge, it's likely to be working for a freezer as well.