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Old 07-09-2007, 09:41   #16
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"driving to the store or work will net me free charging."
Not at all. The way alternators work, is that they only put load on the engine when there is load on the alternator. So when you charge at 400A rates, you will be putting an extra 400*14.4=5760 watt load on the engine. At about 750 watts per horsepower, you'll be putting an 8hp load on the engine whenever you charge at that rate. And you might be surprised at how large that is compared to the "driving down the road" load on it. In comparison, a mid-size sedan only burns something like 12hp to cruise at highway speeds--for everything including the air conditioning.

And of course you'll need to load balance the ribbed belts to drive those alternators, on opposing sides of the engine with equal belt tension.

Might be better off with a standard 100A high output alternator, and a nice wind generator and tripod/pole to set up and use when you are not driving.
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Old 07-09-2007, 15:23   #17
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I bought a 13 hp electric start Chinese Honda for $500.00 new off ebay and mounted a 200 amp 12 volt truck alternator ($350.00) with a Xantrex charge regulator feeding a 800 amp AGM battery bank. It has worked well in tests so far.
I hope to be on the water in 2 weeks.
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Old 07-09-2007, 15:29   #18
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Oh jeez, you had to mention a Chinese counterfeit engine in front of Sean. (Or any of us.)

Let us know when it comes to a grinding halt, they've been good at ripping off designs but not so good at impersonating the actual performance for any long period.
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Old 07-09-2007, 21:03   #19
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The pair of 200AMP alternators is about $2200. Not so bad, especially considering that driving to the store or work will net me free charging.

I'll go that route.
I hate to be pedantic but it's not really "free." Fuel in the vehicle runs the engine, spins the pulleys, overcomes the magnetic resistance caused by the windings under load, blah, blah, blah...

Energy into the system is in the fuel. Energy out is the heat loss from all the appliances. Efficiency losses are in the internal combustion engine and the pulley drags etc., etc...

Convenient? Definitely.
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Old 08-09-2007, 01:55   #20
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Oh jeez, you had to mention a Chinese counterfeit engine in front of Sean. (Or any of us.)

Let us know when it comes to a grinding halt, they've been good at ripping off designs but not so good at impersonating the actual performance for any long period.
It has been mentioned before, but in Australia , we appear to get all the "Good" Chinese stuff,

Apparently,....... they save all the crap stuff for you guy's

And while on the subject of copying stuff, I am under the impression that Oshkosh trucks US are going to do a knock off of the Australian Bushmaster APC. A vehicle that is far superior to the Humvee, yet due to politics, you won't buy from us.

Letter to Rep. Gene Taylor (D-Mississippi): Armored Vehicles for Troops - Expedited Progress - Use of Australian Bushmaster Vehicles - Congress.org

"I've read about the Australian vehicle and how it has saved countless Australian troops along with Dutch troops who have bought their Bushmaster "Bushie". It seems that Oshkosh Trucks, an American contractor, was set to team up with the Australians to deliver 1500 vehicles when the deal was killed "due to politics". I'm not sure what happened but the Australians are claiming that our desire to own the technology and have only American contractors involved exceeds our desire to save our own troops. I realize that normally we do purchase only from American contractors but since there is such a great need, and we already have a number of American contractors working to deliver these, why can't we spread out the orders and get some of these vehicles? Australia has been a partner in this war with us and they now are saying we are not interested in working with them for our troops if it means that the American contractors profits are reduced."

Video article from "Sunday" program


http://ninemsn.video.msn.com/v/en-au/v.htm?f=39&g=b808bc16-43d5-4f10
-a70f-6f4db38c2dab&p=aunews_ausunday&t=s29&mediaid=10526 9



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Old 08-09-2007, 02:29   #21
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Actualy, that last link to video is not the link I was after, but this one here is

Beating around the Bushmaster

Click on the "Watch Video" icon

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Old 08-09-2007, 09:09   #22
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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"driving to the store or work will net me free charging."
Not at all. The way alternators work, is that they only put load on the engine when there is load on the alternator. So when you charge at 400A rates, you will be putting an extra 400*14.4=5760 watt load on the engine. At about 750 watts per horsepower, you'll be putting an 8hp load on the engine whenever you charge at that rate. And you might be surprised at how large that is compared to the "driving down the road" load on it. In comparison, a mid-size sedan only burns something like 12hp to cruise at highway speeds--for everything including the air conditioning.

And of course you'll need to load balance the ribbed belts to drive those alternators, on opposing sides of the engine with equal belt tension.

Might be better off with a standard 100A high output alternator, and a nice wind generator and tripod/pole to set up and use when you are not driving.
Yeah... but what's 12HP when your engine puts out 500HP??
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Old 08-09-2007, 09:12   #23
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I hate to be pedantic but it's not really "free." Fuel in the vehicle runs the engine, spins the pulleys, overcomes the magnetic resistance caused by the windings under load, blah, blah, blah...

Energy into the system is in the fuel. Energy out is the heat loss from all the appliances. Efficiency losses are in the internal combustion engine and the pulley drags etc., etc...

Convenient? Definitely.
True - of course. But... if you have to fire up a 500HP engine and move a large vehicle to the grocery store or to work, you might as well burn the extra $2 of fuel to make 350-400AH of power for yourself to use all day, no?
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Old 08-09-2007, 15:03   #24
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Why would you want to start 500Hp to go the corner store. Plus shift your home. You would be better getting a little powered scooter. But anyways..... I see the point.
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Old 08-09-2007, 18:14   #25
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Why would you want to start 500Hp to go the corner store. Plus shift your home. You would be better getting a little powered scooter. But anyways..... I see the point.
Wheels, this is SCARY!! ha ha ha

We think too alike!

We had talked about getting a "dingy" or "tender" for the land yacht also.

We have only one reservation, and that is the safety record of the little scooter/motos. Plus, the wife isn't experienced on motorcycles like I am. One patch of sand, little oil slick on the road... you know.

So we have decided to pay out the extra fuel cost to drive the vehicle as our every day car. It's big, but not ridiculous. It's about the size of an Isuzu NPR truck.
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Old 08-09-2007, 19:19   #26
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Sean-
"Yeah... but what's 12HP when your engine puts out 500HP?? "
Your engine, even in the motor home or land yacht, may be CAPABLE of putting out 500hp but it normally won't touch that going to the corner store. When you put that load on the engine, any load on the engine, you increase wear and increase fuel consumption. 500hp? maybe on a Freightliner pulling 40,000 pounds upgrade over the Rockies, but I really doubt your engine will be putting that out unless you've got a most unusual engine. And are pulling that Freightliner.<G>

"We have only one reservation, and that is the safety record of the little scooter/motos." Several ex-motorbike riding friends, one of the them a retired doctor, have all said that the first thing you need for a motor bike--is good medical insurance. The question is not if you will spill, simply when and how badly. An economical bike makes great sense for local runs from the land yacht, many of them carry one or two on a rack in front/rear. But still--there's a reason you see leathers, or scars, or both, on old bikers. And a lot of used bikes for sale "only 2000 miles" and one major dump that scared the rider off permanently. (I'm not knocking motor bikes--just saying in bad roads, bad wx, or traffic, they're problematic.)
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Old 09-09-2007, 04:59   #27
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Sean-
"Yeah... but what's 12HP when your engine puts out 500HP?? "
Your engine, even in the motor home or land yacht, may be CAPABLE of putting out 500hp but it normally won't touch that going to the corner store. When you put that load on the engine, any load on the engine, you increase wear and increase fuel consumption. 500hp? maybe on a Freightliner pulling 40,000 pounds upgrade over the Rockies, but I really doubt your engine will be putting that out unless you've got a most unusual engine. And are pulling that Freightliner.<G>


Hmm... maybe I looked it up wrong? I looked *very* quickly just to reply to the post. I saw ratings for the 5.4 liter Trident engine (that's the engine) at 500HP (and also at 450). I didn't dig very deeply. It's the same one used in the new Mustangs.

Either way, there are numerous advantages over a genset when you consider I will be driving the thing every day. I won't miss the 12hp, I'm sure.
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Old 09-09-2007, 13:45   #28
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Lightbulb homemade wind gen?

This has probably been covered elsewhere in the forum but... what about making a homemade wind gen. Just curious...
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Old 09-09-2007, 18:34   #29
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This has probably been covered elsewhere in the forum but... what about making a homemade wind gen. Just curious...
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Certainly possible... maybe even easy!

But you need 10 knots of wind to start wringing any power out of the best of the best that are computer designed with factory molded blades.

You'd have to be in a very windy spot (think trade winds) to rely on that.

I my particular application, I sure wouldn't get the required 300+ AH per day I need.
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Old 18-09-2007, 10:18   #30
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I think one major point is the charging of the battery bank in 1 hour. This imples that you will not have a taper charging set-up, so you will dump the current in hard until they bubble?? not good for battery life.

So you add the charge controller if it does its job, it will do the taper charge properly.

So I get back real quick to a charging inverter. The DC bus of a 12 V inverter is 12V and are the battery connections. (you can get 24v and 48 v set-ups too.)

If you want a cheap DC generator, go looking for the old lincoln DC pipeline welding machines, big and heavy.


My 1500W trace inverter, charges at a max of 100 amps, a dial is used to set the amphour rating of the battery bank, it will limit the rate to the max for that amp-hour and battery type (gelmat etc). I have 1200 amphr lead acid RV batteries and they soak up the 100 amps, but take about 6 hours to reach full charge from say half gone.

A 1500 kw AC gen is more than adequate to drive the inverter.

I think the trace inverter cost about $1500.
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