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Old 30-11-2009, 19:47   #1
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High Amp Alternator - Dedicated Double Pulley Belt

Have had much success with the 100 high amp alternator that I got to replace the smaller stock alternator on my Perkins 4-154- BUT, I did have concerns with using the same belt system that includes the coolant recirc pump.

I recently winterized my engine and thought to "check" my recirc pump - and found noticeable play in the pulley. My thinking is that is all due to the bearings wearing out, maybe prematurely due to the high amp alternator and the tension of the belt. I was not leaking , but probably something I will see next spring. Hmmm....

The folks at transatlantic diesel- Shirley t o be exact recommended a powertakeoff pulley mounted on the flywheel, the original alternator resinstalled, and have my high amp alternator installed separately with a dedicated double belt to the powertakeoff...hmmm.

I could just go through water pumps every year or two, carry a spare, but a dedicated double belt to the high amp alternator sounds correct, so, was wondering if some of you out there ...

1) have experience with this type set up with two alternators ? One operating off a PTO

2) how best to wire in a controller or use my current Ample smart regulator to control one or two alternators ?

3) where does one install the second alternator ? Will I have room ?

4) sounds like my winter project - one of many on my list. Any advice to offer ?



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Old 30-11-2009, 21:11   #2
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Rather than two V-belts, would a single serpentine belt be an option? I have seen them used on higher horsepower diesels with higher output alternators, which are also driving the cooling circ pump. With the larger surface area, they do not require as much tension to get the same amount of resistance to slippage.
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:10   #3
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I have a 125 amp Balmar altanator on my Yanmar 30 Hp= it came with a 2 belt pully, somehow i was unable to align the second belt and have been using 1 belt for 3.5 years 800 hours and no problums so far- its recommeded that you go to 2 belts at 100 amps=- but seems thats not nessary..in my case
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Old 01-12-2009, 04:17   #4
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I have 110 A Balmar on my Yanmar 3QM30F with a single cogged 1/2" belt that runs the freshwater cooling pump also...no problem .....

How tight does your belt have to be ??....if you use a good quality raw edged, cogged belt...Gates or Dayco for example, the belt tension doesn't need to be extreme.

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Old 01-12-2009, 04:29   #5
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Michael, you are asking a good Q tho' the degree to which your fresh water pump is going to wear due to high alternator/pump/crank pulley belt tension does depend in part on how much you ask from that alternator while running a single belt. Also, keep in mind that water pumps will wear progressively even with low belt tension...so we're not talking about 'wear vs. non-wear' for that pump.

The TA Diesel folks know their beeswax but I think the suggestion is more complex than need be. I would suggest you start by adding a second pulley on the crank & pump, and then doing the same thing with your HiCap alternator. (You can take the alternator down to a local auto/marine electric shop and they'll be able to match up and install a new double pulley...but you'll want the 'face' of the new, additional pulleys to match the existing ones, as the double pulley that goes on the alternator will have identical 'faces' (grooves in which the belts run).

This double pulley will allow you to pull max output from your alternator (which equates to about +/- 4hp based on a computation I saw elsewhere here) with minimal tension and therefore side loading of the other pulleys. When I switched to a double pulley, not only have I found the tension can be far less but the slow accumulation of belt dust disappeared - and the belt wear was a good indicator of how much 'grunt' was being put around that those pulleys.

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Old 01-12-2009, 05:52   #6
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Two alternators

Two alternators on a GM20 Yanmar. Two practically seperate electrical systems. The stock alternator charges the small engine start battery and runs the engine panel, that's it. The Balmar charges the house batteries. Instant spare if needed, simple system except for the PTO and jackshaft for the extra alternator and engine driven bilge pump. The 100 amp Balmar runs off the stock crank pulley, nothing else on that belt. The Yanmar alternator for the engine start battery runs off the jackshaft, not much stress on that belt.
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Old 01-12-2009, 06:10   #7
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I think a point which is often overlooked is the amount of contact perimeter the belt has with the alt. pulley. It is a friction drive system. On most single belt, crankshaft/waterpump/alternator layouts, the w/p usually occupies about 90*, and the other 2 use up the remaining 270*. Excessive tension to overcome alt. slippage will contribute to w/p bearing failure.
When I added the 135amp smallcase Amptek, I went to the junkyard and found a pulley, redrilled the holes, and bolted it to the existing pulley on the crank of the W46 Westerbeke. Modified the existing bracket holding the engine alt to mount the additional alt.
Now have about 200* on the crankshaft, and 160* on the Amptek with a dedicated belt. No more rubber dust with 95amps showing on the Link, at 1400 engine rpm, 3360 alt rpm, using the microwave.
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:18   #8
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I have the serpentine belt option from TAD on my 120 amp alternator and so far looks good. If you could afford it that would be my choice.

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Old 01-12-2009, 09:17   #9
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The type of belt is not the issue, it's side loading on the bearing. I'd suggest that you should have your HO alternator running off the crank alone. A serp belt is nice but not necessary- dual vee belts would work just fine.
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Old 01-12-2009, 09:25   #10
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I have a 150 amp alternator in my garage with what I suspect is bad diodes. Came off a Mercedes Diesel. Any thoughts, ideas about converting it to marine use? Perhaps disabling/removing the internal regular?? I have 250 Cummins 6 with a serpitine belt system.

as Frazier says...I'm Listening!
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Old 31-12-2009, 09:54   #11
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Michael, i too have the rarer perkins 4.154 in my boat and ive been looking at installing both an accessory alternator and engine driven watermaker pump. I couldnt predict how it would work out but perhaps we could collaborate in our efforts? I will post some pics of what ive got as far as pulleys go.
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Old 31-12-2009, 16:31   #12
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That is fine - go to my website and email me outside this forum and we can go into this with more awareness. I am in contact with Sherrie at Transatlantic marine and I need to get detailed pictures, measurements and clearances. Sound like I am headed in a direction to restore the original alternator and set up a second dedicated alternator. SV DADIDOC
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Old 31-12-2009, 19:19   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
I think a point which is often overlooked is the amount of contact perimeter the belt has with the alt. pulley. It is a friction drive system. On most single belt, crankshaft/waterpump/alternator layouts, the w/p usually occupies about 90*, and the other 2 use up the remaining 270*. Excessive tension to overcome alt. slippage will contribute to w/p bearing failure.
When I added the 135amp smallcase Amptek, I went to the junkyard and found a pulley, redrilled the holes, and bolted it to the existing pulley on the crank of the W46 Westerbeke. Modified the existing bracket holding the engine alt to mount the additional alt.
Now have about 200* on the crankshaft, and 160* on the Amptek with a dedicated belt. No more rubber dust with 95amps showing on the Link, at 1400 engine rpm, 3360 alt rpm, using the microwave.
Blue Stocking,
I also have a Westerbeke W46 and would be very interested in seeing some pictures of your setup.
Any chance you would post some pic's?

Best Regards,
Extemp.
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Old 01-01-2010, 05:01   #14
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perkins 4.154

I will send an email directly as well however for the purpose of generating discussion here are some pics of what we are working with. there is the front of the engine from a few different vantage points showing the current set up as well as several pics of pulleys.

Two things you may notice when compared to your perkins; firstly mine seems to have an additional bracket already mounted opposite from the current alternator; secondly one of the pulleys shown off the engine has a PTO although it has some surface corrosion.

My original engine didnt have either of these, this is the replacement engine i sourced 2nd hand after mine was found to run mainly on two cylinders!
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Old 07-02-2010, 07:46   #15
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CAD is fun!

here are some pics of what ive been doing this sunday morning - it gives a better result than if i was drawing on graph paper and with a pen, definitely a powerful tool.

the idea is to replace the small pulley/pto completely and install this larger pulley with dual drive belts for both a watermaker and acc alternator. ive set the outer diameters for the watermaker drive pulley at 6" and the alternator pulley at 8" - same as on the existing engine pulley.
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