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Old 23-03-2012, 14:55   #61
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Originally Posted by perchance
The $100 dollar an hour rate you were quoted doesn't all go to the technician. The Marina takes the bulk of that for overhead and profit. The tech might see 25% of that. Most marinas that allow outside contractors to work in their yards will insist on a piece of the action and the contractor passes that on to the customer. If you can move your boat off site to have the work done, say at a public wharf you may get a fully qualified tech. to do the work for a more reasonable hourly rate.
I'm aware of that. Unfortunately the marina does not allow outside contractors. As far as moving the boat? Not really practical in my situation. But thanks.
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Old 23-03-2012, 16:46   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigman99

I'm aware of that. Unfortunately the marina does not allow outside contractors. As far as moving the boat? Not really practical in my situation. But thanks.
If you're dealing with someone reasonable, you could see if there's some grunt work that you could do...most technicians would prefer to do the complicated stuff and let someone do the dirty work. What side of Georgian Bay are you on?
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Old 23-03-2012, 17:24   #63
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Originally Posted by Captivy

If you're dealing with someone reasonable, you could see if there's some grunt work that you could do...most technicians would prefer to do the complicated stuff and let someone do the dirty work. What side of Georgian Bay are you on?
Yup, we are working out this kind of arrangement as we speak.

We are in Midland
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Old 27-03-2012, 07:17   #64
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I completed a task similar to yours. The biggest problem that I needed help with was the battery installation......two man job on my 30 ft hunter. Tha heavy cable routing to the inverter can be an expensive cable run, so try to keep runs short. The wheel attachment is easy the cable run through the tubing needs removal because a hole needs to be drilled through deck
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Old 27-03-2012, 09:33   #65
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In addition, the ac load panel area needs a shore power gen power switch if you intend to connect it all boat ac outlets. A circuit breaker recommended inline to switch. DC cable routing watch for voltage drop to electronics and autopilot motor. VHF wired directly to battery with inline fuse.
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Old 27-03-2012, 10:01   #66
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Re: Help! I'm Being Taken to the Cleaners!

I missed any reference to if you purchased the boxes from the marina or somewhere else. We always had problems with reps who would sell a system and do an excellent sales job, but make bad errors in matching comm formats, connector compatability, etc. The estimate for the job would seem excessive until it was found after a few hours into it that there would be big delays and of course there is a deadline. When I started my project the marina rate was about $50/hr and I've done everything myself, had to redo a few things, but now know every nut, bolt, and screw. I can't imagine how a marina can enforce a policy of no DIY if it's work inside. Do they restrict access to the boat? Perhaps you are at a distance from the boat or don't have the weekend time to DIY.
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Old 27-03-2012, 10:14   #67
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Re: Help! I'm Being Taken to the Cleaners!

It's easy to forget that there is a lot of unpaid time and wasted money behind that $100.00 per hour. It isn't like lawyers that can charge, literally, for the time to stamp an envelope and for the stamp. Just a for instance, when I had my shop I had a $400.00 welder. The city charged me $660.00 per year to have a welder in my shop.
$100.00 an hour sounds like a lot but I assure you, these guys aren't driving new Ferraris or buying beachfront homes.
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Old 27-03-2012, 10:23   #68
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Re: Help! I'm Being Taken to the Cleaners!

Personaly I feel a 100.00 per Hr is a touch high ! But then Im a free lance engine and Tranny worker. I don't do electronic installations on others boats.But I do and have done this work on my on my own vessels and on friends vessels, and 40 hrs is if anything a little short ! But then I solder every joint,shrink wrap, clamp, wire tye, ect. Measure everything twice or three times and cut once. Im a very careful person when it comes to boats, my own or others. So I guess if for your reasons you don't wish to do the work your stuck with the 4000 bucks you have been quoted!! Sometimes it hurts to be stuck in a yard and not be able to get bids from other Installers !! but ya live and learn! and Cat man do you need to talk to some americans some time and find out whats really going on over here ! and stay away from whatever sites that are forming your opinions LOL your getting a little old with the uninformed statements that really don't fit the OPs questions justa thought
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Old 27-03-2012, 18:14   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigman99

A Raymarine C90W MFD/chart plotter, a Ray 55 VHF, a X5 auto (wheel) pilot and a Raymarine network switch. All will need to be installed with a new 400AH AGM battery and a 2000watt Magnum MS Inverter/charger.

Taking into account I have already purchased these bits, I have just received an estimate from the tech at the marina regarding the number of hours to install all of this. I was shocked to say the least.

.
Asuuming you have binacle space to mount the plotter...

Mount plotter - 4 hours
Mount vhf - 2 hours (assume bracket mount) 4 hours for flush mount
Mount network switch - 2 hours
Mount inverter - 4 hours - assuming some bracketry work
Remove and install battery with new lugs and cables - 4 hours
Binnacle work for X5 - 4 hours
Bilge work for X5 actuator - 8 hours
Wirning everything up - 8 hours

35 hours min to 45 hours max...

+miscellaneous shop supplies, wire ends, lugs, wire ties ~$50-75

To me the wild card is the autopilot. I dont know if it is a drop in or the actuation system will require fabrication work.

I'll do my best to come in lower which should please you as opposed to the lowballers on this thread who will run over - LOL
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Old 27-03-2012, 20:31   #70
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Re: Help! I'm Being Taken to the Cleaners!

A big thanks to all that replied. The consensus seems to be that the prices I'm being quoted, give or take, are pretty much inline. It's all good and the information you've given me is very helpful now and for the future. The marina is going ahead with the jobs as we speak and I'm sure the finished work will be top notch. I'll definitely be watching over the work if not exactly hanging over their shoulders.

My reasons, to clarify, for not doing the work myself is primarily two fold.

The season we have up here is quite short, as any Great Lake sailor can attest. The boat is new to me and the sooner the work is done, the sooner we can shake it down and start using it as opposed to fiddling with it. We have a finite amount of time to use the boat and I figured get as much done professionally and I will have a greater chance of avoiding failures which will just cost me more time. We have mapped this install out quite carefully and the installer has done this work many times before. He warranties everything and stands behind everything he does.

I also need to build a relationship with these guys for the future as we are new to the marina as well. What a perfect way to do so while handing them a big wad of cash :S.

Thanks again all.
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Old 28-03-2012, 05:39   #71
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Re: HELP!! I'm being taken to the cleaners!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by perchance View Post
The $100 dollar an hour rate you were quoted doesn't all go to the technician.
My ballpark is around 1/3rd to the employee - 1/3rd for standing costs - 1/3rd for profit (or loss ), taxes and to meet downtime (employees still need paying, even when not making money ).

and for the employee that figure (in this example) is $33, and from that comes taxes , over here that's around a third (other places may be higher) so looking at $20 in pocket, from which employee has to find food and shelter, call that 50%.....so employee only working for $10 an hour of "profit"....despite "you" paying $100 an hour. Out of the back of a van (etc) he does move up the profit chain - until he reaches the hurdle of needing other people.

Trying to find and keep good people on those sorts of numbers is a PITA (good ones see the $100 figure and try and snaffle some of that - it's what I do!) - and why I don't bother employing anyone. Would be different if my business model needed only numpties - as the world ain't short of those .
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Old 28-03-2012, 08:17   #72
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Re: HELP!! I'm being taken to the cleaners!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
My ballpark is around 1/3rd to the employee - 1/3rd for standing costs - 1/3rd for profit (or loss ), taxes and to meet downtime (employees still need paying, even when not making money ).

and for the employee that figure (in this example) is $33, and from that comes taxes , over here that's around a third (other places may be higher) so looking at $20 in pocket, from which employee has to find food and shelter, call that 50%.....so employee only working for $10 an hour of "profit"....despite "you" paying $100 an hour. Out of the back of a van (etc) he does move up the profit chain - until he reaches the hurdle of needing other people.

Trying to find and keep good people on those sorts of numbers is a PITA (good ones see the $100 figure and try and snaffle some of that - it's what I do!) - and why I don't bother employing anyone. Would be different if my business model needed only numpties - as the world ain't short of those .
Nail on the head! That almost exactly describes our shop economy. There's a huge difference between running a sole proprietorship and running a real business. I will always have nothing but respect for the Boss because he has always kept the whole crew employed out of his pocket through any slow spots, laborerers and all. I'm pretty sure that he's taken some very big hits doing this in the past, but that's what it takes to take care of your people and keep the good ones around. A really good business is like a family...
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Old 28-03-2012, 09:22   #73
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Re: Help! I'm Being Taken to the Cleaners!

It is always hard to compare hourly labor rates. In many ways, they are meaningless and the guy charging less per hour MAY actually be more expensive.

Years ago I had a friend in the same line of business who got overloaded and asked me to subcontract something. I quoted her a price and she said "Are you sure?" because I usually quoted more per hour than she did, but my quote to her was less than half what she'd put the job at. I said absolutely. We just had different skill sets, and I had seen a way to produce the same end result with literally half the time spent on the job. Other times, it might have worked the other way.

But then again, if I took a phone call, a bathroom break, a coffee break, I clocked off the job. She didn't run a 'taxi meter' the same way, so her hours were a little longer. All comes out in the same place if the final bill and final job are the same though.

"There's a huge difference between running a sole proprietorship and running a real business." Minaret, I've got to totally disagree with you. Either one can be run sloppily and "off the books" or run professionally. Maybe you think having employees makes a difference, but a sole prop. still has to deal with contractors, suppliers, vendors, clients...and has the same problems getting reliable "help" and all.
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