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Old 23-03-2012, 05:27   #16
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Re: HELP!! I'm being taken to the cleaners!!!

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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
These guys are in the US where the economy has turned to **** and they have 8% + unemployment and $7 minimum wage.
Actually, my guess is that the "Georgian Bay" the OP is talking about is here in Canada; where the water is cold, and the economy hasn't gone completely down the crapper ... at least, not yet .

I've done most of these jobs myself at one time or another (and am looking at installing an x-5 this season as well). My best guess for my boat would easily be a week's worth of work, which would probably amount to 35 hours of straight time. Assuming a professional is more efficient (a big assumption), you could cut that down somewhat, but it's still a time-consuming set of jobs.
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Old 23-03-2012, 05:27   #17
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Re: HELP!! I'm being taken to the cleaners!!!

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Originally Posted by SailFastTri View Post
You obviously have no idea about labor conditions in the US.
I can only go on what your own govt. tells me.
Are you saying they are lying?

Quote:
Employment Situation
March 09, 2012
the unemployment rate was unchanged at 8.3 percent.
United States Dept. of Labour
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Old 23-03-2012, 05:31   #18
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Re: HELP!! I'm being taken to the cleaners!!!

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Actually, my guess is that the "Georgian Bay" the OP is talking about is here in Canada
My apologies if that is the case.
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Old 23-03-2012, 05:39   #19
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Re: HELP!! I'm being taken to the cleaners!!!

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I can only go on what your own govt. tells me.
Are you saying they are lying?
A minimum wage laborer is someone you'd pay less if it weren't illegal. That's not someone who would likely do a competent job installing those systems, which requires some skill and knowledge about marine electrical systems. Done wrong, it could start a boat fire. It's also what you would pay an employee, not a business who is contracting services to you.

The OP said he has a quote from a "tech at the marina". I don't know about Canadian rates, but here in the US Northeast, the "yard rate" for general labor is ~$85-120/hour. Maybe even higher for the electronics "tech" or a mechanic.
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Old 23-03-2012, 05:42   #20
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Re: HELP!! I'm being taken to the cleaners!!!

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Originally Posted by SailFastTri View Post
You obviously have no idea about labor conditions or rates in the US. Would you want a minimum wage employee to do this work on your boat?
Only teenagers would work for $7 hr. You would have trouble finding an illegal immigrant that would take less then $10 hr.
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Old 23-03-2012, 05:44   #21
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Re: HELP!! I'm being taken to the cleaners!!!

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Originally Posted by SailFastTri View Post
A minimum wage laborer is someone you'd pay less if it weren't illegal. That's not someone who would likely do a competent job installing those systems,
Perhaps you would like to point to where I said the"wiring guy" would be on minimum wage?
That's right, I didn't.

But I bet there would be guys out there that are more than competent to do the job for a whole lot less than $75 an hour, especially if all they are getting is $18 normally if working for "The Man" or if they were out of work all together.
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Old 23-03-2012, 05:46   #22
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Re: HELP!! I'm being taken to the cleaners!!!

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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
Perhaps you would like to point to where I said the"wiring guy" would be on minimum wage?
That's right, I didn't.

But I bet there would be guys out there that are more than competent to do the job for a whole lot less than $75 an hour, especially if all they are getting is $18 normally if working for "The Man" or if they were out of work all together.
Then there is no warrantee if the boat burns down!
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Old 23-03-2012, 05:46   #23
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Re: HELP!! I'm being taken to the cleaners!!!

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Only teenagers would work for $7 hr. You would have trouble finding an illegal immigrant that would take less then $10 hr.
Someone recently made mention of a cat they are building in the US for charter on either this forum or another.
They said they had a very competent out of work boatbuilder working for them for $10 an hour.

Here it is

Quote:
I'm not sure I should even tell you what wages are where I am building. I am building in the cheapest place I could build in the USA. The economy is destroyed here and that's why I located over 1000 miles away from home to build the boat. The local labor companies pay $7.67 per hour, before taxes. I felt that was just deplorable, so I am paying some help $10/hr. The guy was actually a professional boat builder and worked in yards and boat manufacturing companies that closed for 15 years. $10/hr. Yes, I feel very lucky to have him helping.

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/pow...tml#post527145
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Old 23-03-2012, 05:49   #24
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Re: HELP!! I'm being taken to the cleaners!!!

What you are paying for is a proffessional. Which is:-

a) someone who already knows what he is doing (not just learning on your dime).

b) someone who knows that the job will involve a lot of faffing around - the only thing that he is doesn't know is exactly what flavour that will be on your boat (including whether the bits you have provided all work / are complete).

c) someone who is making a living, not running a charity - and if he is any good at running his business will be able to afford to turn down a peanuts priced job.

My guess is somewhere between 3 and 5 days.
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Old 23-03-2012, 08:41   #25
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Re: HELP!! I'm being taken to the cleaners!!!

Gut feeling is 4 days; if everything went perfectly right (which never really happens) then 3 at a pinch but could easily chew up 5+ days.
So what were you quoted?
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Old 23-03-2012, 08:48   #26
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Re: HELP!! I'm being taken to the cleaners!!!

25 posts with no further info from the OP. Is this a troll?
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Old 23-03-2012, 09:00   #27
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Re: HELP!! I'm being taken to the cleaners!!!

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25 posts with no further info from the OP. Is this a troll?
I imagine it's just a chap who got a quote he didn't like, and decided he would get some evidence (informal quotes) to show the company that he is being over quoted. Sorely disappointed that he didn't get what he wanted, he probably has no reason to come back and thank us!!!
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Old 23-03-2012, 09:34   #28
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Re: HELP!! I'm being taken to the cleaners!!!

I am retired from a company that specialized in television systems design and installation. We had to estimate projects and a professional company has overhead to consider. Large projects amortize the fixed overhead costs and are more predictable and profitable. Small projects become difficult to assess and more likely to have an ordinary problem cause it to go into the red. Labor was estimated at about 3X what the man was paid. Profit was made on discounts due to volume sales of equipment. Professional installation included diagrams and documentation. All installed wiring was tested and guarranteed correct. We sometimes had mom and pop competitors who made estimates low enough to get the contract, but afterwards the customers would find out "you get what you pay for" and would have to have remedial work done by professionals. Most boatyards operate similarly, the labor charges seem excessive, but they have to keep the doors open and the lights on. Marine electronics can be installed properly without all the resources of a boatyard, but how many times have you heard of electronics or electrical problems that took a lot of time and effort to solve? It happens all the time. You might make out OK if you pay someone time and materials to do your installation and no problems arise. What happens if you are paying for time when someone is sussing out one of those persistent gremlins? Since you haven't replied to this thread and revealed your original estimate, we can only guess what it was. It may have been excessive, but maybe it was proper.
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Old 23-03-2012, 09:43   #29
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Re: HELP!! I'm being taken to the cleaners!!!

Rates for marine electronics installation are well over $100/hr here. Agree that the under-the-table guy is a bad move almost every time.
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Old 23-03-2012, 10:03   #30
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Re: HELP!! I'm being taken to the cleaners!!!

What's the issue? He wants too much money??

THEN DO IT YOURSELF!!

Can't do it yourself? Either learn or pay or complain, your choice!
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