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Old 16-08-2010, 19:50   #31
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I use the tinned wire, the heat shrink, and the dielectric. I just recently stopped soldering as well.

Doesn't the heat shrink also decrease salt and moisture migration down the inside of the insulation, and also decrease deterioration by decreasing the tendency for bending near the connector?
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Old 16-08-2010, 20:01   #32
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Why do you dislike push on connectors? As long as the insertion force is many many times higher than the weight of the end of wire it wont ever come out unless pulled by someone.
I have seen to many of them fail in the marine environment. Had one two months ago. Seemed to push together fine but then would not pass current unless you physically pressed on it or wiggled it. Took my pliers and compressed the nylon jacket over the female end, making it tighter, and it worked. It was zip tied within 2" on either side but I suspect the vibrations still worked it over time and the female side lost its grip. Replaced it with a butt connector.

Once had a customer use a search light on their 12V plug. On the back of that plug was a female bullet connector that slid over the hot post which was a threaded bolt not a proper male type bullet with more contact surface area. The high current caused enough resistance to melt the wire and burn the insulation off the jacket which also melted through three other wires. Replaced the bullet connector with a ring terminal and nut and he never had the issue again.

It's not that I won't ever use them but I won't use them in a critical application. Every now and then they are the best tool for the job and literally can't be avoided but I find those times pretty rare. You can somewhat seal them by filling them with terminal grease but then this reduces the pull out force required as you essentially lube the friction fit. Also I have tested a number of brands that just don't meet the ABYC pull out specs, even when new.

If you do use these I would urge you to use the fully insulated type where the nylon insulation fully encases the male and female parts. I have seen a number of these short out on other items when they are not of the fully insulated type. Happened in a race one night when one came apart and shorted across the battery switch terminal. It literally welded to the stud then proceeded to turn the multi-stranded wire into a solid conductor. If this had been the fully insulated type it never would have shorted out. Fortunately we flipped off the batt switch within a few seconds but the stench of melted wire and smoke still filled the cabin and the damage was already done.

If you can avoid using this type do it:


If you must use them use fully insulated friction connectors (this crimp connector was crimped using the wrong tool by a "qualified" marine refrigeration guy and it literally fell off the wire):
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Old 16-08-2010, 23:03   #33
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FYI something I noticed about 30 year old Ancor wire compared to today's wire. The 30 year old wire had less strands, but the strands were a larger diameter.
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Old 17-08-2010, 00:15   #34
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Good point, tolerances are much more important in those connectors and buying a cheap one is dangerous. The push on connections have been used for decades in aircraft so im sure a good one is reliable, at least where it can't be accidentally pulled on or weighed down.

Dielectric grease can also lubricate the screw in ring terminals too. Im sure its better to add the grease after the connection is made. Hmm i dint think about the push on connectors being open barreled and exposing the copper wire end. If the crimp is gas tight then there shouldn't be wicking past down the wire but its still could be a corrosion spot.

Have you ever had a ring terminal come off?
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Old 17-08-2010, 00:28   #35
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Whats your opinion of the FTZ cool-seal connectors?
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Old 17-08-2010, 05:19   #36
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When moisture gets near the connection, it can corrode the post where the connector is making contact and preventing moisture from working into the wire may be a moot point. Unless the connector has a closed end you can't seal the wire from moisture wicking by applying ANYTHING outside the assembly, short of encasing the entire connection. To do that use CRC corrosion inhibitor spray which applies a coating to the entire assembly.
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Old 17-08-2010, 06:54   #37
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The push on connections have been used for decades in aircraft so im sure a good one is reliable...
I've been working aircraft for 30+ years and have never used the push-on connectors and have never seen them used. I don't believe they are FAA approved anywhere on an aircraft due to vibration, corrosion and condensation. Do you have a reference (FAR) that shows where these are allowed for aviation?
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Old 17-08-2010, 08:48   #38
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They are called spade connectors.



They generally do not come off on their own, but when getting your hands up near bundles of wires or moving wires around to get access to something else, I have experienced them becoming disconnected. At best, they are inconsistent in how hard they grip and I have found myself pinching down the female side many many times in order to get them to grip sufficiently.

They are clearly not as secure as a ring terminal. I also think they have a higher tendency to cause a voltage drop because of their minimal cross section contact area compared to a ring terminal.

I don't like them, but use them when I have no other choice.
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Old 17-08-2010, 09:44   #39
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Are the heat shrink type crimp connectors required in ABYC standards for normal connections i.e. not in the bilge or other areas exposed to water?
Its my understanding that they are not.

I also recently completed a rewire of a 32 year old boat that had non tined stranded wire (has tinned now).The ends of all wire was discolored (green), also used conventional crimp connectors, but all systems were operational when I removed it, except one...and that was the bonding wire on the thu-hull fittings...several of them were completely corroded away inside...just full of black dust looking stuff where the conductors should have been.

I'm not advocating heat shrink or not...just adding some prospective.
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Old 17-08-2010, 10:45   #40
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I've been working aircraft for 30+ years and have never used the push-on connectors and have never seen them used. I don't believe they are FAA approved anywhere on an aircraft due to vibration, corrosion and condensation. Do you have a reference (FAR) that shows where these are allowed for aviation?
According to this http://www.matronics.com/aeroelectri...es/faston3.pdf
Cessna has used them since the mid 60's.
This place sells them Aircraft & Marine Quality Wire Terminals, Nylon Insulated, all sizes

This thread compares them to the junk automtive kind which are much easier to pull on. Fast on connectors - VAF Forums

Maybe their far less common than I thought. You could contact tycoelectronics for more information on them.
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Old 17-08-2010, 13:26   #41
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Gulf:
What make Bob Knuckles an authority?
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Old 17-08-2010, 13:56   #42
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James,

Your usual shoddy workmanship. AWESOME. I got a rewite project for you.
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Old 17-08-2010, 13:59   #43
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Gulf:
What make Bob Knuckles an authority?
Why do you think that he's lying about Cessna?
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Old 17-08-2010, 16:13   #44
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Originally Posted by James S View Post
Are the heat shrink type crimp connectors required in ABYC standards for normal connections i.e. not in the bilge or other areas exposed to water?
Its my understanding that they are not.

I also recently completed a rewire of a 32 year old boat that had non tined stranded wire (has tinned now).The ends of all wire was discolored (green), also used conventional crimp connectors, but all systems were operational when I removed it, except one...and that was the bonding wire on the thu-hull fittings...several of them were completely corroded away inside...just full of black dust looking stuff where the conductors should have been.

I'm not advocating heat shrink or not...just adding some prospective.
I use heat shrink just for for the heck of it, even in none bilge connections.
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Old 17-08-2010, 18:22   #45
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Why do you think that he's lying about Cessna?
Why do you think, that I think, that he's lying ?

I just have no idea who he is, nor why I should accept his opinion as gospel.
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