Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-07-2016, 21:10   #16
Registered User
 
lonesoldier0408's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Boat: Luger, Southwind, 21
Posts: 351
Re: Heating

Tankless water heaters inline with baseboard heat system and low amp low volume pumps.

Sent from my VK810 4G using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________

__________________
lonesoldier0408 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2016, 21:18   #17
Registered User
 
BrieGrande's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Bowley's Quarters, MD
Posts: 10
Re: Heating

Scott Berg, how are the diesel heaters as far as safety? I'm looking into them now, but what is your experience? Thank you so much! :-)
__________________

__________________
Brie
BrieGrande is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2016, 04:16   #18
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,330
Images: 1
Re: Heating

Quote:
Originally Posted by lonesoldier0408 View Post
Tankless water heaters inline with baseboard heat system and low amp low volume pumps.

Sent from my VK810 4G using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Most tankless water heaters that I'm aware of are propane or CNG. I may be wrong
/ Len
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2016, 04:39   #19
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,349
Re: Heating

I'm not sure that the full complexity of this question has been fully presented.

I live on board a lot during the winter and have been through this exercise myself.

I have a professionally installed Espar central hydronic heating system, part of the original build of my boat. This is an extremely useful device, maybe essential at this latitude, but I do not use it 24/7 throughout the winter. First of all, if you run these on normal marine diesel fuel, they coke up and require expensive service, so I try not to run mine when there are other heat sources available. Second, they use a fair amount of fuel, and so are not that cheap to run compared to electricity.

These systems have a lot of advantages, but they require professional service, and can be quite expensive to keep up. I just spent nearly $2000 on mine this year, with several futile service attempts and finally replacement of a burner tube, an amazingly expensive part.

So I use the hydronic system while cruising, underway, at anchor, but I don't run it if I have another good way -- so I usually heat with electricity when I have unmetered electrical power. 3.5kW of ordinary domestic fan heaters will keep the boat reasonably warm (16 to 18C) as long as the outside temperature is above freezing. That's a 54' sailing vessel with lots of ventilation, which I do NOT plug up in the winter, as air circulation is really important for fighting mold.

In the U.S., I have used reverse cycle air conditioning for heat on board, and this is a really excellent system so long as the water temperature does not fall below the minimum (I think 4C or something like that) required for the system to work. Depending on the water temperature, you might get 2x, 3x or even more heat per kWH consumed, compared to simple electric resistance heat.

If I were going to heat with diesel fuel 24/7, I might go to a simple pot heater which is not as sensitive to sooting up and which you can service yourself.


For the OP -- If there is enough electrical capacity available, and it is either unmetered or reasonably priced, and if you plan to be at a dock the whole winter, electrical heat can be a good idea. You need to run the numbers to know how much capacity you need -- I would guess it will be 5kW or 6kW for that boat, and don't expect to keep it as warm as a house. If you have air conditioning, can you run it on reverse cycle?

For most full time liveaboards in cold climates, a single source of heat will not be enough. I have hydronic plus fan heaters. My next boat will probably have a hydronic system which can use as its heat source not only a diesel furnace, but also engine waste heat, electrical resistance heat, and maybe even reverse cycle AC.

Another approach could be to heat the salon with a diesel pot heater (the main disadvantage of these is that it's hard to distribute the heat they produce, but they're great for heating one big space), and heat the rest of the boat with electricity.

In any case, it's a complicated question with a lot of tradeoffs.
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-ętre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2016, 04:43   #20
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,330
Images: 1
Re: Heating

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrieGrande View Post
Base board hot water like in a house. It's radiant heat like an old time radiator, but it would be electric. The water heats with a heating source powered by electricity. I am thinking as I read responses that it would in fact draw to much and forced air is better.
:-)
You can certainly get an "electric boiler",but as you & Scott Berg say-the BTU/hr (KW) rating to heat a 50ft boat would probably be impractical,unless you have a minimum 100A/240VAC & more likely,a std 200A/240VAC electrical entrance.
Oil fired heat is just more practical for a boat-either forced air or hydronic.
A std. well insulated,small bungalow requires 10-15 KW of electric heat up here. You may be able to survive on less than 10KW in your area & still be comfy.
BTU/hr to kilowatts (kW) conversion

You will also need a condensation reducing "Venmar" type Heat Recovery Ventilator if you live aboard IMHO.

Cheers/ Len
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2016, 04:45   #21
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,349
Re: Heating

Quote:
Originally Posted by deblen View Post
. . . You will also need a condensation reducing "Venmar" type Heat Recovery Ventilator if you live aboard IMHO. . . .
That's a great idea for liveaboard boats in winter
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-ętre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2016, 04:52   #22
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,330
Images: 1
Re: Heating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I'm not sure that the full complexity of this question has been fully presented.

I live on board a lot during the winter and have been through this exercise myself.

I have a professionally installed Espar central hydronic heating system, part of the original build of my boat. This is an extremely useful device, maybe essential at this latitude, but I do not use it 24/7 throughout the winter. First of all, if you run these on normal marine diesel fuel, they coke up and require expensive service, so I try not to run mine when there are other heat sources available. Second, they use a fair amount of fuel, and so are not that cheap to run compared to electricity.

These systems have a lot of advantages, but they require professional service, and can be quite expensive to keep up. I just spent nearly $2000 on mine this year, with several futile service attempts and finally replacement of a burner tube, an amazingly expensive part.

So I use the hydronic system while cruising, underway, at anchor, but I don't run it if I have another good way -- so I usually heat with electricity when I have unmetered electrical power. 3.5kW of ordinary domestic fan heaters will keep the boat reasonably warm (16 to 18C) as long as the outside temperature is above freezing. That's a 54' sailing vessel with lots of ventilation, which I do NOT plug up in the winter, as air circulation is really important for fighting mold.

In the U.S., I have used reverse cycle air conditioning for heat on board, and this is a really excellent system so long as the water temperature does not fall below the minimum (I think 4C or something like that) required for the system to work. Depending on the water temperature, you might get 2x, 3x or even more heat per kWH consumed, compared to simple electric resistance heat.

If I were going to heat with diesel fuel 24/7, I might go to a simple pot heater which is not as sensitive to sooting up and which you can service yourself.


For the OP -- If there is enough electrical capacity available, and it is either unmetered or reasonably priced, and if you plan to be at a dock the whole winter, electrical heat can be a good idea. You need to run the numbers to know how much capacity you need -- I would guess it will be 5kW or 6kW for that boat, and don't expect to keep it as warm as a house. If you have air conditioning, can you run it on reverse cycle?

For most full time liveaboards in cold climates, a single source of heat will not be enough. I have hydronic plus fan heaters. My next boat will probably have a hydronic system which can use as its heat source not only a diesel furnace, but also engine waste heat, electrical resistance heat, and maybe even reverse cycle AC.

Another approach could be to heat the salon with a diesel pot heater (the main disadvantage of these is that it's hard to distribute the heat they produce, but they're great for heating one big space), and heat the rest of the boat with electricity.

In any case, it's a complicated question with a lot of tradeoffs.
I guess I was preaching while you were writing
I agree with your post & you have had the experience! / L
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2016, 05:02   #23
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,330
Images: 1
Re: Heating

A recent thread on boat heating that may help:

Prospective Boston Liveaboard – Heating and Condensation
__________________

__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
heating

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hydronic Heating System Design ldrumond Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 13-11-2010 19:48
Heating and cooking equipment suggestions wildhitsuji Provisioning: Food & Drink 12 23-02-2008 13:09
Heating a Catamaran ssullivan Multihull Sailboats 39 15-02-2008 14:00
Radiant Heating/Cooling drew.ward Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 6 02-12-2007 02:58
Space Heating from Engine Coolant Sonosailor Engines and Propulsion Systems 16 02-12-2004 13:09



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:05.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.