Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-01-2012, 08:36   #61
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,766
Re: Heads Up - Victron Isolation Transformer

To get back to the original topic, Nick, do you recommend an 18 amp breaker between shore power and isolation transformer? Do you recommend any particular type?
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2012, 09:11   #62
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Re: Heads Up - Victron Isolation Transformer

Most of the Ancor terminals I buy are made by ETC which is part of Molex. But when I see Molex terminals I buy those. The Perma-Seal range from Ancor is Molex.

Then next time I buy Ancor I can get something like K.S terminals from Taiwan. I still use those for datacom when I can't find better ones, but for power wiring I keep to the big names.

I would prefer AMP terminals but never see them offered where I hang out.

For crimpers, I don't go to the extremes of Maine Sail because my boat would sink under the weight, but I have a range of good quality AMP crimpers for wire terminals, BNC/TNC etc.

So yes, Ancor basically sells what they can get for a good price. It's not always bad and may be K.S is decent too, I just don't know these guys so can't be sure.

ciao!
Nick.
__________________

__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2012, 09:26   #63
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Re: Heads Up - Victron Isolation Transformer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
To get back to the original topic, Nick, do you recommend an 18 amp breaker between shore power and isolation transformer? Do you recommend any particular type?
I recommend a 16A breaker if you stay in 220-240V territory. If you want to be able to accept 110-120V you need a 30A breaker and wiring to cope with that (=AWG8).

You should be able to get DIN rail versions easy like this:

Put that into a nice polycarbonate enclosure like these:


ciao!
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2012, 09:43   #64
Registered User
 
Sulaire's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Planet earth
Boat: Hans Christian 41
Posts: 190
Hi

I am just waiting for my victron transformer to arrive and be fitted to my 1992 hans christian 41 T. (should be the new design as it was only ordred a couple of weeks ago).

This thread has been a great help to a novice like me.

I bought my boat in the usa and brought her back to the uk, where I have been using an off the shelf non marine step down from 240v to 120v, ( i am not altering the onboard system to 240v), this step down has worked fine, but now we are moving onboard full time, I obviously needed to fit a marine grade transformer.

After reading jedi's experiences with the victron and doing some homework myself I decide on the victron as it is a global product and provides true isolation.

I am also upgrading my battery charger from a sterling 50amp to a victron 100amp as my battery bank is 900ah !!

Would you recommend a breaker just after the it aswell as just before, or is that just belt, braces and more belts? (i will fit 30amp breakers as we will be on world tour of duty!)

I am currently checking each passage of cable through bulkheads etc, it is suprising how little chaf.e protection there is up against all those sharp edges!


Charlie.
__________________
Sulaire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2012, 10:18   #65
Registered User
 
sabray's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wash DC
Boat: PETERSON 44
Posts: 3,169
Re: Heads Up - Victron Isolation Transformer

i think i would not use spade fittings for most connections. I have them on my compass light where I need to disconnect to work with in the pedestal. Other wise its ring fittings heat shrunck and a coat of dielectric grease. Dont see why you would use spade fittings for any application other then a need for easy decoupling.
Just found that my inverter charger was hooked up with wire nuts. Complete rewire of the limited 110 followed. Crazy wiring. I went through every connection and wire after seeing that. Yes the wires charred. Next is the shore power cord PM. Corroded connections are not effective. I am big on checking and using dielectric grease
__________________
sabray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2012, 12:27   #66
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulaire
Hi

I am just waiting for my victron transformer to arrive and be fitted to my 1992 hans christian 41 T. (should be the new design as it was only ordred a couple of weeks ago).

This thread has been a great help to a novice like me.

I bought my boat in the usa and brought her back to the uk, where I have been using an off the shelf non marine step down from 240v to 120v, ( i am not altering the onboard system to 240v), this step down has worked fine, but now we are moving onboard full time, I obviously needed to fit a marine grade transformer.

After reading jedi's experiences with the victron and doing some homework myself I decide on the victron as it is a global product and provides true isolation.

I am also upgrading my battery charger from a sterling 50amp to a victron 100amp as my battery bank is 900ah !!

Would you recommend a breaker just after the it aswell as just before, or is that just belt, braces and more belts? (i will fit 30amp breakers as we will be on world tour of duty!)

I am currently checking each passage of cable through bulkheads etc, it is suprising how little chaf.e protection there is up against all those sharp edges!

Charlie.
Hi Charlie,

You made good choices. Any gear can develop a problem or something with a component failing over time like in this case. The thing is that Victron is top quality with good support behind it.

For safety reasons, you need to check the gauge of your wiring. Whenever it steps down to a smaller diameter, you need to insert a breaker to protect that. Your wiring will be 30A rated so you should be good with just the 30A breaker at the primary side. But local regulations can state you must have one on the output too. If so, just add it as it is little extra work because these enclosures will support two or more breakers with ease. It helps that your secondary side will always be 120V 30A while a 30A breaker on a primary running at 240V 16A does little. It's also nice when you can easily isolate a device by flipping both breakers to off. Then you can re-jumper the IT like from 120V to 240V without the risk of somebody connecting you to power on the dock with your fingers still in the IT etc.

ciao!
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2012, 14:22   #67
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Heads Up - Victron Isolation Transformer

BTW, Its not difficult to make your own isolating transformer, Good toroidals up to 5000VA are readily available ensure they are to EN61558-2-23, and have a shield. Then its an inrush surge protector such as made by Ametherm ( mega surge), Some people prefer resistive inrish ( softstart) switched by a resistor.

A 5000VA toroidal is about $150.00

DC blockers and Mains RFI filters can also be added ( do not necessary for isolating traffos really)

Stainless steel box etc

Of course the required breakers.

Not for the complete novice of course but not difficult. ( remember not to short a toroidals endplates together )

Efficiency is around 95%, sure its heavy but not in the context of a boat ( around 22Kg for 5000VA).

remember AC can kill
Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2012, 14:44   #68
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Heads Up - Victron Isolation Transformer

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I recommend a 16A breaker if you stay in 220-240V territory. If you want to be able to accept 110-120V you need a 30A breaker and wiring to cope with that (=AWG8).

You should be able to get DIN rail versions easy like this:

Put that into a nice polycarbonate enclosure like these:


ciao!
Nick.
I dont know about you nick, In case cases I seen standard breakers that are very susceptible to corrosion in the marine environment, especially around the terminals.

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2012, 16:38   #69
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Re: Heads Up - Victron Isolation Transformer

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I dont know about you nick, In case cases I seen standard breakers that are very susceptible to corrosion in the marine environment, especially around the terminals.

Dave
Correct, these terminals are not marine rated. Still, never saw a problem with any of these and most were -not- coated with corrosion block spray or grease like we all do... Breakers must replaced every 10-15 years anyway, even my expensive US-type marine rated ones.

I think all EU boats have these...

ciao!
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2012, 23:30   #70
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,766
Re: Heads Up - Victron Isolation Transformer

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Correct, these terminals are not marine rated. Still, never saw a problem with any of these and most were -not- coated with corrosion block spray or grease like we all do... Breakers must replaced every 10-15 years anyway, even my expensive US-type marine rated ones.

I think all EU boats have these...

ciao!
Nick.
This would be living in my lazarette, so maybe something marine rated would be better. I've never seen marine rated AC breakers. Now I'll do a bit of Googling.

Now if I can just figure out where I can get some "thermal breakers" to protect my circuit so that it can "carry the heat" . . .
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2012, 03:58   #71
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead

This would be living in my lazarette, so maybe something marine rated would be better. I've never seen marine rated AC breakers. Now I'll do a bit of Googling.

Now if I can just figure out where I can get some "thermal breakers" to protect my circuit so that it can "carry the heat" . . .
Here is the breaker that I have... on ebay UK : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISA...sid=p2992.m753

The enclosure is what I don't like, no room for extra breakers. I later mounted a DIN rail enclosure with the additional breakers like I posted earlier and that has been good for 9 years now, in the lazaret!

Ps. yes, we must be able to carry the full heat from the resistive load!

ciao!
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2012, 04:02   #72
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,205
Cool Re: Heads Up - Victron Isolation Transformer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
This would be living in my lazarette, so maybe something marine rated would be better. I've never seen marine rated AC breakers. Now I'll do a bit of Googling.

Now if I can just figure out where I can get some "thermal breakers" to protect my circuit so that it can "carry the heat" . . .
Oh quit it Mr.Smarty Pants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I am having lots of fun (! are we having fun yet?) wiring up my new Victron charger/inverter.

One of the trickiest bits is modifying the wiring so that all of the boat's AC power goes through the Victron. It has to do that so that the power boost feature will work.

I've just about got it, but I'm quite afraid of these connections which could potentially carry, theoretically, 13kW of power momentarily (6.5kW from the genset and 6kW boost power from the inverter). That's a lot of power, so I can't afford to make the tiniest mistake.

I've about decided to connect the AC output from the Victron to the AC power input to the boat's RCD -- residual current device, a ground fault interrupter in yankspeak. All the boat's AC power currently goes through the RCD to the main AC power bus.

The only problem is I do not want to cut into and crimp onto existing wires, if possible. I want to connect the cable from the Victron AC output directly to the RCD. The problem is that the RCD has some weird looking spade connectors which look permanent. I can't slide them off.

Anybody know what these are? Are they single-use only? So I need to buy a new RCD? Can you buy these connectors?
__________________
FlyingCloud1937 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2012, 04:41   #73
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937

Oh quit it Mr.Smarty Pants
That, my friend, is a message better suited for yourself. You have messed up this thread with much nonsense and we only repeated some of it because you keep digging.

I'll never post these projects again because of this; they will be on my blog. In fact, this one is now available on my blog too: http://www.sv-jedi.org/sv_jedi/2012/...ansformer.html

ciao!
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2012, 12:12   #74
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,766
Re: Heads Up - Victron Isolation Transformer

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
Oh quit it Mr.Smarty Pants
I tried to follow the logic of this post, but failed to understand what Lloyd is trying to say.

I guess the only answer to it is -- whatever.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2013, 12:30   #75
Registered User
 
kellyp08's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Northeast Harbor, Maine
Boat: Sou'wester 50 yawl
Posts: 131
Images: 10
Re: Heads Up - Victron Isolation Transformer

I see that this thread is a bit old but I note that there are members here who really seem to know their s**t as regards isolation transformers - so here goes. Last year I took my boat from Mt Desert, Maine to the Med (Mallorca). Because they use 240V; 50 hz dockside power. I had a certified marine electrician install a Victron 3600 Watt Isolation transformer (VIC-ITR040362040 ). While cruising I have a 12KV Diesel generator. At the dock shore power seemed to work OK for charging batteries, air conditioning and refrig (even though the compressor motors ran a bit hot and noisy due to 50Hz input to 60Hz motors). The problem is that the sacrificial zinc anodes on my prop cage and Max-Prop would dissolve and disappear in 3-4 months. (In Maine they'd last the entire season and still be pretty much intact).

I attributed the problem to the polluted Med harbors and stray currents from powerboats, etc., etc. But when I brought her back to Maine; the problem remains - zincs are disappearing in 3-4 months. I measured the hull potential (AG-AGCL electrode in water near prop-multimeter-engine block) and this read -0.690V - supposedly in the "protected range".

I am wondering if the Galvanic corrosion problem relates to the Victron Isolation transformer (which I no longer use). Any ideas?
__________________

__________________
kellyp08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Isolation Transformer: Victron vs Mastervolt vs Charles wilsodf Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 87 07-07-2016 13:33
racor 75500fgx isolation valve hard to turn evm1024 Engines and Propulsion Systems 10 26-02-2013 11:10
Is My Victron Multi Dying ? Dreaming Yachtsman Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 125 18-01-2013 09:06
Victron Overload Light hummingway Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 9 27-01-2012 17:48
Neighbor dumping raw AC into water?...what to do? 2nd Dog Watch Marine Electronics 211 04-01-2012 06:56



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:36.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.