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Old 30-08-2011, 21:02   #31
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Re: Have to Upgrade My Battery Bank - Acid or Lithium ?

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Have to admit, we stock our freezer pretty much when we are going to be aboard. My wife does not like to store stuff in the freezer. This cuts our energy consumption by more than half. (Freezer is set down to 20 degrees, that also lightens the consumption. But, it means you don't want to store frozen goods in it for more than about 3 weeks.) We take the stuff in the freezer home with us when we are off the boat.
I like this idea a lot ! Ours is set to 4 degrees below zero which is the manufacturers recomendation.

Since we do carry more that 3 weeks supply of some items in the freezer, I can't help but wonder what difference it would make on consumption if I were to reset it to say 10 degrees... and would that keep meats frozen enough to last 5 to 6 weeks...?

One of the other things we have been doing is that I have a bunch of freezer packs on board, and we use them to fill the empty spots in the freezer as we consume the contents. The intent being that it consumes less energy if it is full.

One of the other reasons why we have that large unit on the upper deck is that we entertain a lot on the boat, sometimes with as many as 25 people at a time. This ref/ freezer unit has the ability to change the temperature on each side separately so that we can set the freezer and fridge at 35 degrees and fill it with beer and beverages and food to party on...
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Old 30-08-2011, 22:36   #32
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Re: Have to Upgrade My Battery Bank - Acid or Lithium ?

We have kept meat in the freezer for up to about 6 weeks at 22. It doesn't go bad, but it may lose some of its quality is what I am told. I have never noticed because we eat the high quality stuff (Steaks and lamb chops) quickly. -4 will probably keep meat pretty much good for several months. If you know you're going to consume whatever is stored in a short amount of time, it may make a WHOLE lot of sense to bring the temperature up. I would not go above say 25, with 20 probably being the most optimal.

We keep the refrigerator at 40, that works the best for us. Maybe 36 or so is better if you have a whole lot of people opening and closing the doors.
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Old 26-08-2012, 07:13   #33
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Re: Have to Upgrade My Battery Bank - Acid or Lithium ?

Update:

I have installed a Sterling alternator/charger on each drive engine.

Each engine has a 130 amp alternator and the Sterling unit continuously checks house and engine battery and is a smart charger.

The both of them are charging into my house bank which are still the same original wet acid batteries as last year and are maintaining my batteries at between 12.5 and 13 Volts with refrigeration running.

I am assuming that the range of 12.5 to 13 is created by the refrigerators cycling on and off as needed.

I will probably replace them in the spring since I know that these batteries were in fact drained below 50% on several occasions.

Looks like the problem is solved so far, I just hope that the sterling units hold up.

These are the two units that I had installed.
12 volt, 210 amp dc powered battery charger

I picked the largest heaviest duty that they had available even though the 210 amp is much larger than the output of my 130 amp alternator. So far, they are working fine with the exception of the remote control which is not working but the masterview from mastervolt reports the voltage and amperage on my housebank so I still know that they are working.

I am now debatting whether I need all those batteries. Perhaps just two batteries would be adequate since the power from the sterlings seems to be enough to keep me running. Getting rid of three of those big batteries is like 450 lbs less weight on the boat, more than both refrigerators weigh combined...

This setup keeps everything running while cruising, at night we are usually at a marina so, we only need the generator if we anchor for more than a couple of hours which is maybe once or twice a year, so all is good. The genny should last many years this way.

My inverter charger is a Mastervolt 12v/4000 watt/ 200 amp charger with Masterview controls at both helms.

Thanks again for all the help.
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Old 26-08-2012, 12:04   #34
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Re: Have to Upgrade My Battery Bank - Acid or Lithium ?

So a year on, what do you knowledgeable enthusiasts suggest as a battery solution?
My lead acids are 55% i can fit 850 watts solar, i will fit a 350 watt wind generator dumping any extra into our hotwater system.

Other sources of existing charge are two alternators on our Volvo mains and an 80 amp charger working through shore power or our 6 kva Paguro genset.

Gel? AGM? Acid or Lithium iron?? Existing but dead Lead Acids are 5 - Varta Pro-motive @ 135 amps each.

Hope you can help Cheers Frank
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Old 27-08-2012, 16:01   #35
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Re: Have to Upgrade My Battery Bank - Acid or Lithium ?

If you want to buy new batteries, consider the third alternative -- NiMH (Nickel metal hydride) Energy and power density are comparable to Lithium, but they are reasonable in price and less finicky about charging, equalization and all that. Not as light as Lithium, but weight is not much of a problem if they are low in the boat. The battery packs in the Nissan and Prius are NiMH. And we use them in our electronics products. They also have a flat discharge curve, i.e. hold their voltage up until the very end and don't mind deep discharge. (Not at all like the old NiCad's which were a pain.)

You can buy re-built Prius and/or Nissan packs on the web for a few k$, or buy the D or C cells and hook up your own. That's whats in the car packs, by the way, a big pile of D or C cells.
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Old 27-08-2012, 16:26   #36
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Re: Have to Upgrade My Battery Bank - Acid or Lithium ?

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
So a year on, what do you knowledgeable enthusiasts suggest as a battery solution?
My lead acids are 55% i can fit 850 watts solar, i will fit a 350 watt wind generator dumping any extra into our hotwater system.

Other sources of existing charge are two alternators on our Volvo mains and an 80 amp charger working through shore power or our 6 kva Paguro genset.

Gel? AGM? Acid or Lithium iron?? Existing but dead Lead Acids are 5 - Varta Pro-motive @ 135 amps each.
.
Hope you can help Cheers Frank
Frank,

Check out the LifePo4 threads.

There are a lot currently converting. Price per effective amphour now seems to be similar or cheaper than agm with plenty of advantages and seems you don't need the real fancy BMS's.

May have been a link in this thread to a Lagoon 440 that recently converted.

LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Cheers,

john
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Old 27-08-2012, 17:15   #37
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Re: Have to Upgrade My Battery Bank - Acid or Lithium ?

"NiMH (Nickel metal hydride) Energy and power density are comparable to Lithium,"

That's news to me. Got any citations to back that up?
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Old 27-08-2012, 22:22   #38
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Re: Have to Upgrade My Battery Bank - Acid or Lithium ?

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Frank,

Check out the LifePo4 threads.

There are a lot currently converting. Price per effective amphour now seems to be similar or cheaper than agm with plenty of advantages and seems you don't need the real fancy BMS's.

May have been a link in this thread to a Lagoon 440 that recently converted.

LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

Cheers,

john
Hey John Yer the Genasun look very sophisticated with a terrible cost, was wary of getting caught with Chinese lookalikes tho, ill check your suggestion, cheers Frank
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Old 27-08-2012, 22:49   #39
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Re: Have to Upgrade My Battery Bank - Acid or Lithium ?

John i looked at this thread initially, so many pages! Was hoping an enthusiast could shortcut the discussion some.. Cheers Frank
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Old 27-08-2012, 22:51   #40
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Re: Have to Upgrade My Battery Bank - Acid or Lithium ?

So the car pack batteries are a mass of D's or C's bundled together!!!! Thanks i'll look further.
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Old 28-08-2012, 08:34   #41
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Re: Have to Upgrade My Battery Bank - Acid or Lithium ?

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John i looked at this thread initially, so many pages! Was hoping an enthusiast could shortcut the discussion some.. Cheers Frank
YES but there is a lot of good info there. I am still digesting. Make contact / PM T1 Terry.

He seems to know his stuff. Genesun is certainly too expensive for me.

cheers
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Old 28-08-2012, 09:23   #42
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Re: Have to Upgrade My Battery Bank - Acid or Lithium ?

You have been given some great answers, but understand that most of us own boats that use per day what you use in hour.
Upscaling yacht systems to this level just does not work well.

If I was setting up a boat with your requirments I would not be too concerned about the energy efficiency of appliances. You need to run a generator most, if not all of the time to provide this level of power.
I would set the boat up with 2 generators. This will provide back up (a boat like this will not function without a generator). One generator would be running 24 hours a day.

There are various strategies in sizing these generators, but I would have 2 identical generators that when one was run 24 hours a day would cover your electrical requirements with a reserve.

Many of would love to own a boat with this level of luxury, but in many ways the sound strategies of concerving power, short generator run times (or solar) together with a big battery bank that work well for smaller yachts do not translate to the best option for a large vessel like yours.
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Old 28-08-2012, 09:33   #43
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Re: Have to Upgrade My Battery Bank - Acid or Lithium ?

Check out the Coastal Craft IPS56, which can run their A/C, washer-dryer, cookers, water heaters, etc. all off their 8kW inverter-charger (perhaps not ALL at once, of course), powered by a 1080Ah x 24V Genasun system. Works great. Recharging is via both the inverter-charger and additional charger from the genset.
http://coastalcraft.com/page263.htm
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Old 28-08-2012, 09:34   #44
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Re: Have to Upgrade My Battery Bank - Acid or Lithium ?

Drawing that much current you may need to tow a barge containing a small power plant! YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 28-08-2012, 10:19   #45
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Re: Have to Upgrade My Battery Bank - Acid or Lithium ?

I was thinking let's say we are aboard for 15 years before we have to go off to the done-rootin village, In 15 years at Gladstone we would spend on rates, electricity, fuel and insurance well in excess of say 190,000 AUD, So around 10,300 a year....makes lot's of things more realistic dollar wise. But i do get where you are coming from Cheers
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