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Old 12-01-2016, 09:09   #31
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Re: Going from complicated to simple, any regrets?

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Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish View Post
The vessel is 27ft. The D/C panel looks like a plate of red spaghetti with vice gripped terminal fittings. There are numerous butt splices on a single run of wire. Some terminals are pulling free. Visible hanging wires thru-out. There are obsolete stereo with speakers and automotive accessory plug in receptacles in numerous places, lamps, extra lights, TV, etc. The shore power panel is just as bad if not worse. The fridge had to go cause it was horrid. I can repair all this. New tinned wire and properly rated circuit breakers etc. So, what this comes down to is this; the vessel was modernized 10 years ago for electronics and furnishings of that era. Equipment seems to be obsolete in two years as well as the wiring to support said equip. How important is it (to you) long term to have 3 a/c outlets spaced thru out the boat as opposed to a single inverter with two built in outlets? My idea was to keep it simple without shore power. Efficiency of portable electronic devices for navigation and entertainment, maintaining electrical potential seems to be a net negative. Or is this backwards thinking?
I love simple and it is one of the things that gave me pause when we moved up from 27 feet to 40. On my 27 I would carry a fully charged marine power pack to get me out of any sticky situations. This had plugs for USB as well as 120 and was fitted with emergency navigation lights. Used it all the time for short trips and it got the diesel going on at least one occasion when the startup battery had died.
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Old 12-01-2016, 17:04   #32
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Re: Going from complicated to simple, any regrets?

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
yeah... then one Friday evening your battery's low and you're heading out Saturday morning...
Okay, so why would that be a problem?

I have solar and a pull start engine to move the boat 25' out of the slip and marina/jetty space.

After that, no problem.

I have no power draw on my batteries when the boat sits overnight.

I have about $8,000 in my boat, (new) sails, solar (140 watts), 2012 outboard (5hp/4 stroke) engine, inverters (400, and 1500), depth, autopilot, GPS (2) and everything is good. Not much power draw.

I think it has to do with sailing (and boating) experience.......my last four sailboats didn't have engines, GPS, depth, etc......(this for a period of 15 years)
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Old 12-01-2016, 17:16   #33
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Re: Going from complicated to simple, any regrets?

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Originally Posted by captlloyd View Post
This idea would get my vote. Can't be that hard to put in a basic system.
But there is no need for it.............unless you would rather work on your boat than sail it.


Which is fine also.........
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Old 14-01-2016, 15:29   #34
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Re: Going from complicated to simple, any regrets?

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
But there is no need for it.............unless you would rather work on your boat than sail it.

Which is fine also.........
If the OP is already rewiring DC, stuff's already apart; it would take an extra hour or three to check, install/fix, and/or replace the existing AC stuff for maybe two breakers and two outlets... and then you have it. Very useful, especially for conventional cruising, marina-hopping, or simply having more options when you're docked. (battery charger, little microwave, dehumidifier, tools, etc). Adds to resale value too.
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Old 14-01-2016, 17:15   #35
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Re: Going from complicated to simple, any regrets?

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
If the OP is already rewiring DC, stuff's already apart; it would take an extra hour or three to check, install/fix, and/or replace the existing AC stuff for maybe two breakers and two outlets... and then you have it. Very useful, especially for conventional cruising, marina-hopping, or simply having more options when you're docked. (battery charger, little microwave, dehumidifier, tools, etc). Adds to resale value too.

Or you can use the adapter and an extension cord.

Some of us enjoy going of the grid and being totally self sustaining on our boats

Microwaves, dehumidifiers, marina-hopping? You may as well just stay at home.

Where's the adventure in that?
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Old 14-01-2016, 18:34   #36
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Re: Going from complicated to simple, any regrets?

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Or you can use the adapter and an extension cord.
If you're even thinking of using AC at some point, install the right stuff. The adaptor/extension cord route is potentially dangerous to you and others, against the rules at any marina I've been to, and would likely void insurance coverage in the case of loss.

Quote:
Some of us enjoy going of the grid and being totally self sustaining on our boats

Microwaves, dehumidifiers, marina-hopping? You may as well just stay at home.

Where's the adventure in that?
Some of us like the adventure too (there's no AC power on our little boat). But it's not always about the Captain's wishes. Sometimes there's the Admiral or guests to consider.
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Old 15-01-2016, 04:33   #37
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Re: Going from complicated to simple, any regrets?

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
If you're even thinking of using AC at some point, install the right stuff. The adaptor/extension cord route is potentially dangerous to you and others, against the rules at any marina I've been to, and would likely void insurance coverage in the case of loss.
Relax, the extension cord and adapter is to be used for your power tools/wet vac etc so you save from using your inverter and battery power while at the marina

I'm not seeing that as dangerous............you may be reading a bit more into it

The guy/OP doesn't really need AC

I've been doing this for 5 year. No problems with insurance (or marina personnel) when I hook up may adapter and extension cord for my wet vac. no danger either so far. I've even used my sander like this without complaint and power drill
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Old 16-01-2016, 09:10   #38
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Re: Going from complicated to simple, any regrets?

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
The guy/OP doesn't really need AC
Nobody's trying to ram it down his throat.The OPs boat is already wired for AC; wouldn't be much effort to make that work.

Electric Shock Drowning Prevention | Boating Magazine

DIY Shore Power | West Marine
Itís tempting to use a shore power pedestal as a handy way to power drills, sanders, and other power tools. This is a particularly dangerous activity for two reasons.
Youíre connecting a light gauge extension cord into a 30A circuit, so the cord is not sufficiently protected against short-circuits and fires. The only circuit protection is the 30-amp breaker on the shore power center, which will undoubtedly exceed the power rating of the cord thatís plugged into it.
Thereís no operator protection from a GFCI, since that would normally be found onboard the boat, and thereís no boat involved. Therefore, the operator of the power tool, while using it in a wet environment, is in danger of electrocution. In fact, shore power centers are only intended to supply power to a boat, using an approved shore power cord, and not as general-purpose AC outlets. More importantly, if youíre working around water, you must have a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) in place to prevent potentially fatal shocks.

Extension cords @ dock - SailNet Community

Deadly Shockers — Marine Electrical Safety | United Marine - Boat Insurance

Getting shore power onto my boat

Safe Shorepower by Don Casey - BoatTech - BoatUS
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Old 16-01-2016, 15:53   #39
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Re: Going from complicated to simple, any regrets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Nobody's trying to ram it down his throat.The OPs boat is already wired for AC; wouldn't be much effort to make that work.

Electric Shock Drowning Prevention | Boating Magazine

DIY Shore Power | West Marine
Itís tempting to use a shore power pedestal as a handy way to power drills, sanders, and other power tools. This is a particularly dangerous activity for two reasons.
Youíre connecting a light gauge extension cord into a 30A circuit, so the cord is not sufficiently protected against short-circuits and fires. The only circuit protection is the 30-amp breaker on the shore power center, which will undoubtedly exceed the power rating of the cord thatís plugged into it.
Thereís no operator protection from a GFCI, since that would normally be found onboard the boat, and thereís no boat involved. Therefore, the operator of the power tool, while using it in a wet environment, is in danger of electrocution. In fact, shore power centers are only intended to supply power to a boat, using an approved shore power cord, and not as general-purpose AC outlets. More importantly, if youíre working around water, you must have a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) in place to prevent potentially fatal shocks.

Extension cords @ dock - SailNet Community

Deadly Shockers ó Marine Electrical Safety | United Marine - Boat Insurance

Getting shore power onto my boat

Safe Shorepower by Don Casey - BoatTech - BoatUS
Ok.

But I used my extension cord with the wet vac today and the world didn't end nor did any bad thing happen to the vac or the boat.

If you want to wire your boat for AC, fine. Do it then you can sit at the dock and work on stuff until your heart is content.....

You should see the stuff I hook up to my small inverters until they scream.....

( but I have made a living by being an electronics/electrical/mechanical technician/manager for 40 years which doesn't hurt)
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Old 16-01-2016, 17:15   #40
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Re: Going from complicated to simple, any regrets?

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Ok.

But I used my extension cord with the wet vac today and the world didn't end nor did any bad thing happen to the vac or the boat.

If you want to wire your boat for AC, fine. Do it then you can sit at the dock and work on stuff until your heart is content.....

You should see the stuff I hook up to my small inverters until they scream.....

( but I have made a living by being an electronics/electrical/mechanical technician/manager for 40 years which doesn't hurt)
They make cords with a GFI. Most people won't spend the buck or for that matter the gauge wire they need. A 14ga wire from Lowes, for example, is not worth a damn.
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Old 17-01-2016, 05:45   #41
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Re: Going from complicated to simple, any regrets?

The point is if you use common sense the plug adapter and a normal orange outdoor extension cord work fine for most all jobs at the dock. (even charging the batteries)

In some cases, they are safer because they aren't hooked up long.....maybe an hour at the most, whereas some folks will leave their shore power plugin type cords hooked up until they corrode and burn off a lead.....usually at the boat end
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Old 18-01-2016, 15:35   #42
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Re: Going from complicated to simple, any regrets?

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Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish View Post
Hi folks, I am new to the forum. I purchased a project boat and am in the final stages of completion. Its a small boat and not a lot of room. I plan on coastal cruising. The issue is the wiring, I don't like it for many reasons such as corrosion, chafe, poorly routed,etc. My background is in aviation maintenance/pilot and I like things to be fail safe and tidy. I was considering removing all electric except the D/C basics such as nav lights, vhf. All A/C wire and accessories outlets would be removed. Just going back to a basic boat (nice and clean) with a solar panel and battery bank to power portable nav/com devices. Any flaws in my idea, or am I missing something? Is shore power for a non-live aboard worth the re-wire hassle?
Do you know the folks from Lea Lea, also on an Albin Vega in Alaska? If not, check YouTube.

In my opinion, an Albin Vega is a pocket cruiser. Every pocket cruiser should have a shore power system. Lack of a shore power system will reduce resale value by about $1000, everything else being equal.

Ramblin Rod
Marine Service Provider
www.sheenamarine.com
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