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Old 31-10-2017, 14:15   #46
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Re: Get rid of the starting battery?????

A bit off the path but still has to do with batteries.

We have all left dry cells in flashlight and other battery operated electronics. We discover the batteries have leaked. What is the magical cure to get the stuff off the battery contacts so we can install new batteries breathing new life into the battery operated flashlights and hand held electronics.
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Old 31-10-2017, 14:30   #47
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Re: Get rid of the starting battery?????

My wife came home with a $50 pocket sized jump starter from Costco

https://www.costco.com/Lithium-Jump-...100383979.html

I first told her that no way would that be enough to start an engine. Reading up a bit, I decided to keep it under the seat of my truck.

The first use was on her Prius--the 12v battery was dying after 5 years. I had to put an extension on the jumper cables, but the little pack did the job until I could get a replacement 12v AGM battery in the Prius. As mentioned, this application doesn't start the engine, it starts a computer.

The next use was to start a Universal M25 in a Catalina 30. The boat batteries were suspect and so was the boat wiring, so I just put the jumper cables straight to the starter. It was enough to roll and start the diesel when it was warm.

I haven't used the lithium jump battery to start anything real challenging, but it seems to have a fair starting power, the price is right, and its really convenient. If I had a boat today, it would be in a cupboard. You do need to put it on a charger every couple of months.
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Old 31-10-2017, 14:57   #48
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Re: Get rid of the starting battery?????

dan-
Plain white vinegar (fee free to waste the better stuff) and a toothbrush cleans off most of the alkaline mess if it is fresh. If it has attacked the metal contacts, you may need to sand them with extrafine sandpaper or a wire wheel to get back to clean metal. Alkaline batteries apparently also can emit some type of gas that will form a black non-conducting layer on brass contacts, no leakage required.
So I put silicone grease on all the contacts, all the time. Vaseline if there's nothing better at hand. That way WHEN they leak, the metal isn't harmed.

Remember that the big three battery companies, in the US, can all be called toll-free and if the batteries haven't reached their expiration date, they'll replace the batteries AND the device if it has been damaged. (And yes, they all leak, even before the expiry date.)
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Old 31-10-2017, 15:12   #49
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Re: Get rid of the starting battery?????

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dan-
Plain white vinegar (fee free to waste the better stuff) and a toothbrush cleans off most of the alkaline mess if it is fresh. If it has attacked the metal contacts, you may need to sand them with extrafine sandpaper or a wire wheel to get back to clean metal. Alkaline batteries apparently also can emit some type of gas that will form a black non-conducting layer on brass contacts, no leakage required.
So I put silicone grease on all the contacts, all the time. Vaseline if there's nothing better at hand. That way WHEN they leak, the metal isn't harmed.

Remember that the big three battery companies, in the US, can all be called toll-free and if the batteries haven't reached their expiration date, they'll replace the batteries AND the device if it has been damaged. (And yes, they all leak, even before the expiry date.)
Thanks, I'll give it a go.
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Old 31-10-2017, 15:28   #50
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Re: Get rid of the starting battery?????

If you've got a truly shorted, batt in there you could suck the powerpak dead.

But you don't want the alt running with none there.

If you're responsible, take care of your banks, bottom line you shouldn't ever be getting any surprises.
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Old 31-10-2017, 15:43   #51
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Re: Get rid of the starting battery?????

Isn't all this too complicated? It seems that we all agree two independent battery banks are needed to ensure you do not run out of electricity. Most boats have a off/1/2/both switch. If your main bank is so undersized that you worry about high current draw then just set it to both when running high amp loads. In regular use leave it to House. Simple.

This entire discussion centers around having a separate startup pack that needs to be stored, charged every now and then, managed, wired, etc. I just fail to see what you gain for so much complexity. If your starting battery is oversized, then just undersize it but do leave the 1/2 setup in place.
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Old 31-10-2017, 16:06   #52
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Re: Get rid of the starting battery?????

Have a start battery one on side of the engine and the house batteries on the other. The battery boxes make convenient seats for working on the engine.
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Old 31-10-2017, 16:07   #53
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Re: Get rid of the starting battery?????

Ideas can evolve over time.

For me, powerpak is a belt & suspenders only, would keep handy & charged in any case.

And Main/Reserve scheme the are all one bank unless Voltage goes unusually low.

Full advantage of Peukert's Law otherwise, no dead weight lead, consolidate all batts into the one bank.

But most people want to, and should, stick with tried and true best practices, so dedicated Starter batt for them NP
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Old 31-10-2017, 17:34   #54
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Re: Get rid of the starting battery?????

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Originally Posted by Pizzazz View Post
Isn't all this too complicated? It seems that we all agree two independent battery banks are needed to ensure you do not run out of electricity. Most boats have a off/1/2/both switch. If your main bank is so undersized that you worry about high current draw then just set it to both when running high amp loads. In regular use leave it to House. Simple.

This entire discussion centers around having a separate startup pack that needs to be stored, charged every now and then, managed, wired, etc. I just fail to see what you gain for so much complexity. If your starting battery is oversized, then just undersize it but do leave the 1/2 setup in place.
A few reasons I'm doing what I'm doing.

Yes I have two, independent battery banks but the first thing is the 1-2-Both switch. I unfortunately don't have a perfect memory and a couple of times in the past I forgot to switch from Both to 1 or 2 when anchored. A day or so later I go to crank the engine to charge the batteries and whoops, I ran down both banks. So to improve on the 1-2-Both I changed the wiring so one bank is not connected to the 1-2-Both switch but is charged by a auto combiner when a charge voltage is present. So, more or less idiot proof.

Then the next improvement I'm considering, changing the large, heavy lead acid battery that is my current starting battery for a small, light, lithium jumper battery.

No more complicated than the original two battery bank setup and actually easier to use. No need to switch 1-2-Both.
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Old 31-10-2017, 17:35   #55
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Re: Get rid of the starting battery?????

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Ideas can evolve over time.
Exactly!
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Old 31-10-2017, 17:45   #56
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Re: Get rid of the starting battery?????

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I am considering using a super capacitor for starting my small diesel. Any comments on this?
Unless there is some new kind of capacitor that I haven't heard of there is problem with this idea. A capacitor will leak and loose the charge fairly quickly, as in hours. Maybe new ones are better or maybe there's a new design but unless this problem is solved you can't use a capacitor for long term storage.
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Old 31-10-2017, 17:47   #57
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Re: Get rid of the starting battery?????

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So with these Li battery packs and in the event of a low or dead battery bank, is it better to hook it up to the battery or directly to the engine starter? Or does it matter?
If you have a very low or dead battery then hooking another battery in parallel will probably just draw down the new battery so you end up with two dead batteries. If one battery is dead, disconnect it and connect the jumper battery by itself.

If you have a running engine like jumping a car then unless the dead battery is damaged or shorted you can skip this step.
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Old 31-10-2017, 17:48   #58
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Re: Get rid of the starting battery?????

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Because when you inevitably run the house bank to dead thru inattention or exhaustion, you have the ability to start the engine to recharge the house bank.

I think a jump pack is an important piece of gear but there are a lot of junky ones with bells and whistles. I'd recommend the jump pack you see in most mechanics shops, the legendary JNC660. I drive a diesel car and it will start it when the temp is in the single digits DegF. Overkill for my 16hp Yanmar but provides loads of juice for multiple cranks when priming the engine. On sale at $117 currently on Amazon...

Jump-N-Carry JNC660 1700 Peak Amp 12V Jump Starter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000JFJLP6..._vho-zbQ11GZKP
Thanks for the recommendation. Looks like the JNC has a number of features I haven't seen on other units and sounds like a top of the line product.
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Old 31-10-2017, 18:03   #59
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Re: Get rid of the starting battery?????

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Thanks for the recommendation. Looks like the JNC has a number of features I haven't seen on other units and sounds like a top of the line product.
JNC 660 is lead-acid and needs regular recharging. Defeats your purpose because its sure to be flat when you need it. The Li version looks much better.
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Old 31-10-2017, 19:23   #60
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Re: Get rid of the starting battery?????

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JNC 660 is lead-acid and needs regular recharging. Defeats your purpose because its sure to be flat when you need it. The Li version looks much better.
Yes, just read the specs and found that out. Too bad. Otherwise it looks like a nice unit with extra features. For low self discharge, long storage I do think lithium is the way to go.
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