Generator Questions

[Mule]

Bob, I doubt Rick, being from Toronto, understands the need for airconditioning in Texas. Kindda like the Germans took forever to put good air in their cars. Bit of a foreign language. I like decadence, ice cream, ice, cable TV, and all of the trappings.

If you are content to use a gasoline system, then the 2000i Honda is the answer, used in tandem. They have interconnect wiring and there are plans refered to on this board on how to use a 6 gallon outboard tank to feed them for an extended period of time.

They have like a 2 year warranty and compared to 12 grand for some of the systems you can go a long time replacing every 2 years at the most. I have seen them priced at less than $900. 47lb each and small to boot.

I hope things turned out ok with your boat sinking and insurance struggles.

BTW, there is a RV unit @16k for about $900 that cools like mad, is only 9 1/2 inches high. Kindda hard to tastefully mount on a sailboat, but I am gonna put one behind and under the fly bridge shield of my coming Mainship 34. I will have 32btu of AC. The boat has a new NextGen 3.5kw.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by Mule

Bob, I doubt Rick, being from Toronto, understands the need for airconditioning in Texas. Kindda like the Germans took forever to put good air in their cars. Bit of a foreign language. I like decadence, ice cream, ice, cable TV, and all of the trappings.
.

Mule,

I've been in Florida in July, on my boat. If you're not in a marina, where you're plugged in and the air is on, the solution is to head off to the Bahamas where the breezes do blow. And that's what I did. As for cable TV, I doubt if you'll have that when cruising. I do have a great fridge that keeps ice cream hard though.

[btrayfors]

In calculating the size of generator you need, don't ignore the power factor of attached devices. The Victron is a wonderful device, and has a power factor of 1 (as contrasted with some others like Xantrex which have PF's as low as .7).

However, all motors present an inductive load and require more generator capacity than you would think. A/Cs, in particular, can be problematic.

I have a NextGen 3.5KW generator. It can handle either of my two A/Cs OK (16,500BTU and 12,000BTU), but not both together....at least not for long. As a generator heats up, it's ability to deliver amps is significantly reduced as well. High ambient temps (like when you really need A/C) help make generators heat up and, correspondingly, be less able to deliver rated power.

While I understanding the thinking of having the smallest generator which will do the job, I think the tendency is to WAY underestimate the size of generator needed. I wish I had room for an 8.5KW genset :-)

With two A/Cs, a Victron 130A charger, a cooktop, and other things you've mentioned, it would be very easy to exceed the capacity of a smallish generator on a hot day.

The "not all at the same time" thinking is also flawed: if you do things serially, then you add the number of hours the generator must run. Better to have adequate capacity, load it up well, and run it for the shortest possible time to do the needed work.

My advice would be to calculate which size you think you need, then add a healthy percentage -- perhaps 30-50% -- to ensure you REALLY have the power you need.

Bill

[ka4wja]

Originally Posted by bobfnbw

Still not sure if my budget could swing this, but if I can make it work, I feel the genset is a good piece of equipment to add to our boat soon.

Also if you could add only one high dollar item to your boat, would it be a genset, a water maker, or something else?

Bob,
I'm with Vasco on this, 100%.....
"Something Else" = Solar!!!!

1) The best addition I've made was my 520 watts of solar (and MPPT controllers), 3 years ago......I should've done it sooner!!!
Have a look at my article / photos of my installation at:
Solar Panels

No question about it, solar pays for itself eventually....but when you consider things other than the $$$ invested/saved, solar pays for itself almost instantly!!!
It's completely silent, maintenance-free, "free" energy.....that lasts 25 years +......
And can even add some shade to keep you and your boat cooler in tropical locales, as well as reduce your exposure to skin-cancer-causing UV rays, etc. etc. etc......

Don't under-estimate the "silent" and "maintenance-free" aspects......they are REAL BIG PLUSES!!!!


2) As for genset, Air Cond, and watermaker......I bought my 47' boat 5.5 years ago (and it was 5 years old then), and it was already equipped with a 6KW genset and 3 A/C units (16k, 10k, and 7k BTU's).....aside from a minor repair, I've been happy with the Marine Air A/C units and the Fischer Panda genset....(yes, I'm one that has good luck with his FP....)
BUT, I almost never use the genset.......

My FP is 10.5 years old and has only about 525 hours on it, and 200+ of the 300 hours I've put on it, are from running it to provide power TO the shore after some hurricanes of Sept. 2004.......so, take my good results for what they are......VERY light use.....

And, as for the A/C units, they're nice when working on the boat here in summertime Florida.....but once away from the dock, I don't use them....
(BTW, I've found they work very well on 50hz power as well.....I used my 5000 watt transformer in Gibraltar 2 years ago, and had a nice cool cabin for the week in August I was there at the dock.....)

And, as for the watermaker......I have a Spectra Ventura MPC-5000.....
It was pricey, but has worked very well for over 2.5 years, 10,000+ offshore miles, and ~600 hours of operation......
(I also have an article and photos about my watermaker choice and installation...... Watermaker )


3) But, the basic reason for my post is to recommend adding as much "un-shaded" solar panels as you can fit on board.........
Add the solar before considering a watermaker, scuba compressor, etc.....

And, if you're going to be anchoring in the tropics, you'll probably find use of many 12vdc fans (I have 12 of them on board!) will be all you need......
Yeah, summertime Bahamas can be pretty hot....but unless you're in the middle of a rain shower, you should have plenty of air....
I'm assuming you've already got the A/C units......so maybe you can save the A/C units for use when plugged-in to shore power, when stuck in a windless marina.....


I do hope this helps....

Fair winds.

John

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Vasco

Mule,

I've been in Florida in July, on my boat. If you're not in a marina, where you're plugged in and the air is on, the solution is to head off to the Bahamas where the breezes do blow. And that's what I did. As for cable TV, I doubt if you'll have that when cruising. I do have a great fridge that keeps ice cream hard though.

You do know then, I think it is worse in Texas more of the time.

[stevensc]

Bob, the main loads on my present boat with 9 KW Onan are 2 units 16,000 BTU A/C will run both at the same time, a microwave, 12/120V refrigerator, 50 Amp battery charger, if I'm night fishing 2 - 500 Watt lights. I believe I have run all, except the microwave, at the same time with no problem. The geberator was already installed and worked fine when I bought the boat so have never figured out all the load on it.
My Genset does not have a PTO

The previous boat with 4KW had 1 unit 16,000 A/C a 30 amp charger, 12/120 v fridge, and a microwave.

A friend had a pair of Honda 2 KW which he connected for 4 KW and ran very well. They did take up a good bit of room in the cockpit where his were stored.
While it is possible to cruise the Gulf Coast without airconditiong the nights will often be very uncomfortable especially May-October.
Good luck,
Steve W.

[bobfnbw]

John, good post, thanks.
I do have 2 110 watts each of solar panels mounted on the aft rails outboard. The xantrex controller is shot now though when the boat sunk. I plan to add 2 more 130 watt panels and a outback 60 amp MPPT controller for a total of 480 watts, and the possibility of another 260 on the Bimini later on.
The genset is for AC power though.
I agree that the a/c might not be used much on the hook. On our last boat we never used it, didn't have the capability of it. But it seems so damn hot here most days...
Of course with a good deck awning and lots of hella fans running... maybe I won't need it at all. But still I feel the need to supply some type of AC power off the inverter.
The Honda 2000i is one possibility.
I was at the boat tonight measuring for a larger Yamaha generator, it won't fit on my aft deck wihtout either covering the emergency tiller, the aft locker, or the deck prisims. Unless I obstruct the ladder access.... none of these are particularity my best choice.

[bobfnbw]

Originally Posted by Mule

Bob, I doubt Rick, being from Toronto, understands the need for airconditioning in Texas. Kindda like the Germans took forever to put good air in their cars. Bit of a foreign language. I like decadence, ice cream, ice, cable TV, and all of the trappings.

If you are content to use a gasoline system, then the 2000i Honda is the answer, used in tandem. They have interconnect wiring and there are plans refered to on this board on how to use a 6 gallon outboard tank to feed them for an extended period of time.

They have like a 2 year warranty and compared to 12 grand for some of the systems you can go a long time replacing every 2 years at the most. I have seen them priced at less than $900. 47lb each and small to boot.

I hope things turned out ok with your boat sinking and insurance struggles.

BTW, there is a RV unit @16k for about $900 that cools like mad, is only 9 1/2 inches high. Kindda hard to tastefully mount on a sailboat, but I am gonna put one behind and under the fly bridge shield of my coming Mainship 34. I will have 32btu of AC. The boat has a new NextGen 3.5kw.

Thanks Mule.
Still working (getting messed with) by the insurance company, but should know this week, if not we are going to court.

Looking hard at the honda 3000iSA. It too can tandem, can run at 2800 watts at 58 dB, and can be had for 2900. looking at pelican cases to fit it in to keep it out of the weather.... but no luck so far, might have to go with something a bit smaller... Like 2 2000i's.

[s/v Jedi]

Hmm... here we go again ;-)

The Honda's have a DC generator and an inverter that converts this to AC again. As a result, they vary the RPM with the load you put on. When a Honda makes almost no sound, that means it is idling. When you load it up, you will hear it across the anchorage to hundreds of feet away. I've been around boats with these units for 7 years now, fool yourself if you want but not me or others that are considering to buy a genset. A Honda is also on the deck without a sound shield. They are a pest in the anchorage but accepted because others recognize the need for charging batteries even when the budget doesn't allow an in-board diesel genset.

My Northern lights at maximum output doesn't make a fraction of the sound of the Honda at it's maximum output. That is because it's quite silent already, plus it's inside the boat in the engine room and it has a sound shield. I can hear it in the cockpit but not inside our boat and not from a boat anchored right next to us.

About the price: you should shop for it. I just bought a brand new Northern Lights 6 kW 120/240V unit for $7,400.- which is far down from the $12,000.- list price. The Honda price listed in this thread are street prices already.

cheers,
Nick.

[Anzelmi]

I have come across the generator system, which acts as the main engine power of the engine regardless of rounds.
Voltage and frequency bump at any stage. The price range is affordable, at least in my opinion, when the system gets a lot more than just electricity.
Watercraft and hydraulic bow thruster, anchor winch, swim platform and the back, etc. What we can leap to one's mind.

These such products should ask: ::: DYNASET OY - Powered by Hydraulics :::

[RoadRacer]

The Dynaset solution looks very interesting!
Why don't more people use the main diesel engine(s) as the generator power source? Seems that eliminating an additional engine onboard would reduce complexity.

[James S]

Originally Posted by RoadRacer

The Dynaset solution looks very interesting!
Why don't more people use the main diesel engine(s) as the generator power source? Seems that eliminating an additional engine onboard would reduce complexity.

They are generally much larger engines than required to charge batteries ...that means more fuel and maintenance cost.
Also it may not be so good for the engine to run it under a light load.

[RoadRacer]

They are generally much larger engines than required to charge batteries ...that means more fuel and maintenance cost.

I was thinking more in terms of running heavy power demands such as A/C, microwaves, water makers, etc. In cases where someone would like to have the option to run the AC occasionally without dedicating a stand-alone generator.

[s/v Jedi]

But an A/C, microwave and water maker are all very low power for the main engine. I think it depends on how you use the boat; we live aboard, we need a genset. But when you live in a house, sure why not use the engine now and then.

cheers,
Nick.

[Mule]

Teh Dyna system would be good for underweigh then switch over to a small engine to power the hydralics. Bt it would be hard to come out on that type of setup $ wise.