From My Design to My Installation: New AC Power System

[Palarran]

Nick, thanks for posting that the transformer can step up. For some reason I thought when I installed it that it only transformed in and out as the same voltage.

[ericoh88]

Jedi,

Thank you for the information. I have been scratching my head as to what is the best route for this boat 120v when I am in a 240v region. Lugging the step down transformer to every marina is a bit inconvenient and juggling 120v supply with 240v is troublesome.

I met one steel boat 40+ from OZ he had everything run off the onan genset . electric stove, washing machine, water maker, refrigeration. He loved the set up. I might have to continue to use a step down transformer 240v to 120v for the boat's 120v air cond and water heater. When they stop working, I will switch them to 240v.

Now I want to put in an isolating transformer 240v to 240v/120v.

Eric

[heintje23]

this link is dead: ENERGO-TEC

but i am very curious what it is. Anybody?

[Sawbonz]

You just shouldn't let a good thread die!

I am trying to lay out a system for a new Leopard 45 we have on order and it seems to be very similar to Jedi's system in use. I have just completed my (very rudimentary) pictoral layout and wonder if anyone would like to comment on it. It has been submitted to the service director at Ward's Marine and I will also send to Just Catamarans when it is more refined for their input before selecting an installer. While I have learned a lot in researching I am by training a physician, so please forgive any obvious deficiencies in my design.

[Palarran]

I bought the auto transformer and isolation transformer from Victron. If I had to to it over again, without a doubt I'd get the Charles Isolation transformer and that is all. The auto transformer breaker trips about every time I connect to shore power. Not a problem as all you do is reset it and it's fine. But the Iso transformer went bad after 1 year. It was probably bad power from a Greek village marina, but regardless, it was a connection not a winding that burned. So for 1/3 the price you can get an Iso transformer that can step up or down, and has no internal electronic's to fry.

[heintje23]

I would take a good look at the victron quattro and its capabilities

[Sawbonz]

Originally Posted by heintje23

I would take a good look at the victron quattro and its capabilities

Thank you, I have. While I admit my shortcomings in understanding I don’t think it fits into the system as drawn. Also, I don’t see that there’s any benefit to the Quattro over the Multiplus if your generator isn’t running because there could be no fallover.

[Mycroft]

Palarran, does the breaker blow if you have it off before plugging into shore power? I never have the breaker on until shore power is connected and live.

I'm also unhappy with my Victron auto-iso transformer. If the voltage at a nominal 110/120 marina is actually 126+, then the transformer just shuts itself off after a period of time. When I contacted support (an effort in itself here in the US), they basically said that it should cut out at a little higher than that, but that it's caused by circuitry to prevent damage to the unit. Of course this is nowhere documented.

In Port Townsend, I had to bypass the transformer completely. I'm going to install a volt meter at the shore power inlet so I can check voltage before flipping the breaker.

[botanybay]

Interesting observations on automatic isolation transformer. I have been running mine for several years as a liveaboard without issue. The loads are often near rating. However, my setup is running on 208 input with 208 output to an 8kva Quattro. Thus the single point amperage is less than 16 amps from shore power at 208v.

With regard to the Quattro vs multi, I program a different maximum current when on shore power (15A) vs generator (22A) so that after pulling dock power and sailing to Catalina I don't have to fiddle with the current inlet maximum on the inverter.

I have been extremely pleased with the combination. I also have had good success with the installed 100a at 28v charger if I need 50hz power at the dock. I just shift the output of the isolation transformer from the Quattro to the charger, use 50hz only equipment and then switch back.

[heintje23]

being critical on the drawing then:
you feed the balmar centerfielder into the victron centaur which takes from 90-400dc?
you use the generator to supply the centaur. so basically make an inverter based system?
why not keep it simple and replace the 2 inverters, autotransfomer and centaur charger with one quattro? and maybe be able to take a smaller generator because the quattro can peak shave your highest needs. 900Ah seems enough.

isnt the purpose of the two legs of the autotransfomer already defeated by going inverter based? the full load of the gen will be used for charging and if your needs are higher the quattro will take it out of the batteries.

[Sawbonz]

Originally Posted by heintje23

being critical on the drawing then:
you feed the balmar centerfielder into the victron centaur which takes from 90-400dc?
you use the generator to supply the centaur. so basically make an inverter based system?
why not keep it simple and replace the 2 inverters, autotransfomer and centaur charger with one quattro? and maybe be able to take a smaller generator because the quattro can peak shave your highest needs. 900Ah seems enough.

isnt the purpose of the two legs of the autotransfomer already defeated by going inverter based? the full load of the gen will be used for charging and if your needs are higher the quattro will take it out of the batteries.

Good questions, all of them, and I will attempt to answer. Please note that I am mostly guessing.....

I think that that is how the center fielder is run, but am still not sure.

Yes, basically inverter based so that most frequency issues at foreign marinas are eliminated. The generator would supply battery charging and power above what the inverters can handle.

The Quattro has the advantage over the Multiplus, as I understand it, of switching between different inputs. I don’t see this having any value if the generator isn’t kept running, though I hope to find a rep at the Ft Lauderdale show who can clarify. As to the generator, I have been trying to feasibly downsize but appear to be limited by the dive compressor requirements. Will also try to clarify at the show.

I have contacted an electrical engineer and am hopeful that he will answer some of these questions. Also, I apologize for the delay in replying as we are visiting the R&C factories (and a few wineries) in South Africa.

[Sawbonz]

Oh, and two inverters has the advantage of more output than \one Quattro and has some redundancy. I really can’t answer as to how the auto transformer is redundant.

[heintje23]

from my memory Jedi used the autotransformer to get the most out of two phases coming out of the generator, in 120v that is. This will not have the same effect in your set up.

the balmars will run to your battery bank.

and matching the generator to run the compressor is a good idea. but you could undersize the generator as well and the quattro will take the amps out of the battery bank. filling a bottle is 15 minutes or so.

remember that all your 120 or 220 ac will come from the quattro.

[Sawbonz]

Originally Posted by heintje23

from my memory Jedi used the autotransformer to get the most out of two phases coming out of the generator, in 120v that is. This will not have the same effect in your set up.

the balmars will run to your battery bank.

and matching the generator to run the compressor is a good idea. but you could undersize the generator as well and the quattro will take the amps out of the battery bank. filling a bottle is 15 minutes or so.

remember that all your 120 or 220 ac will come from the quattro.

Thanks. It makes sense. Perhaps I drew the auto transformer in the wrong place, but I hope the EE sorts that out for me.

[alaskanviking]

Hi,

are there any updates on your system?

Also what is the voltage of your alternators? you have them feeding a Victron charger, but that accepts a voltage between 90 and 400 volts DC. I was looking for higher voltage alternators, but was stumbling on solutions for a 48v lithium system. i was thinking that this may be a way

thanks

V/R

Robert