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Old 13-08-2015, 05:40   #16
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Re: Fried My Alternator :(

I keep my original Yanmar alt as a spare.
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Old 13-08-2015, 05:48   #17
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Re: Fried My Alternator :(

I've contemplated a separate circuit with it's own switch and breaker ( I don't like fuses) to provide power to the field for my alternator, ought to enable you to crank your engine and let it warm a minute or two before applying power, plus I mistrust the stock Yanmar switch, I have an "issue" with the starter solenoid, seems as if the current from the starter switch isn't always enough to close the contacts to the starter solenoid, and when I measure voltage at the alt field wire, it's a little below battery voltage, indicating either dirty contacts in the switch, inadequate wire gauge or some other high resistance somewhere.
I think this is pretty common on at least older Yanmar wiring harnesses, and unless mistaken, I don't think the harness is tinned either?
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Old 13-08-2015, 05:56   #18
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Re: Fried My Alternator :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Concerning the question of carrying a spare:

I am something of a fanatic about spares inventory, which results from having wasted a lot of time I could have otherwise spent having fun on cruises searching for parts.

However, alternators are so repairable in so many places -- since it's a common auto electric bit. And since this is one of two alternators on the main engine, and I have a heavy duty generator. So this alternator going out is not a cruise-stopper. I think I will carry a spares kit, but not a complete spare alternator. Otherwise with the starter of course.

I can't download your diagram. What model Neville alternator, what model adverc regulator ? You have a Yanmar 4JH3 block with two alternators ? What ones are they, and how did you set up your drive belts (just curious on that one)
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Old 13-08-2015, 05:59   #19
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Re: Fried My Alternator :(

http://www.adverc.co.uk/cm/files/pdf...structions.pdf
page one near bottem yellow must be connected
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Old 13-08-2015, 07:24   #20
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Re: Fried My Alternator :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by sartorst View Post
http://www.adverc.co.uk/cm/files/pdf...structions.pdf
page one near bottem yellow must be connected

He has the twin alternator installation, so (ref. page 2), the brown lead is also connected to the ignition switch ("what to expect on startup". Yellow lead is not required.

I take it Dockhead has two alternators in parallel, working together at all times. That means the two alternator rotor excitation leads are tied together (green lead on adverc), and the two outputs (B+) are tied together (using blocking diodes so one won't feed the other in case of a short in one).

Loosing the brown lead is like turning off the ignition switch, so both alternators should have went into full output mode right then (warning on bottom of page 6). But they should survive that, although the batteries were getting overcharged at that time.

I think both alternators quit until you reestablished bus power (+) to the brown lead of the adverc, right ?

Another related topic, the blower is fed right off the ignition terminal. On my boat the blower is physically a foot away from the engine control panel, so I could see that happening. A 24V Jabsco blower can pull 10 A maybe on startup, and run with 7.5 A ??. Is the ignition lead sized for that kind of current, or is there a voltage drop across the Yanmar ignition lead of significance ? If a drop, then the bus sense lead that the regulator is governing to is actually below in voltage what the batteries are actually at.

Are both alternators the same type, or did only the high power one blow up?

Actually, reconnecting the brown lead (effectively) should have brought the alternator outputs down, plus get the blower back, which it did.
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Old 13-08-2015, 07:31   #21
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Re: Fried My Alternator :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericson38 View Post
He has the twin alternator installation, so (ref. page 2), the brown lead is also connected to the ignition switch ("what to expect on startup". Yellow lead is not required.

I take it Dockhead has two alternators in parallel, working together at all times. That means the two alternator rotor excitation leads are tied together (green lead on adverc), and the two outputs (B+) are tied together (using blocking diodes so one won't feed the other in case of a short in one).

Loosing the brown lead is like turning off the ignition switch, so both alternators should have went into full output mode right then (warning on bottom of page 6). But they should survive that, although the batteries were getting overcharged at that time.

I think both alternators quit until you reestablished bus power (+) to the brown lead of the adverc, right ?

Another related topic, the blower is fed right off the ignition terminal. On my boat the blower is physically a foot away from the engine control panel, so I could see that happening. A 24V Jabsco blower can pull 10 A maybe on startup, and run with 7.5 A ??. Is the ignition lead sized for that kind of current, or is there a voltage drop across the Yanmar ignition lead of significance ? If a drop, then the bus sense lead that the regulator is governing to is actually below in voltage what the batteries are actually at.

Are both alternators the same type, or did only the high power one blow up?

Actually, reconnecting the brown lead (effectively) should have brought the alternator outputs down, plus get the blower back, which it did.
Hmm, now that's a really good question. That part is not shown on any of my wiring diagrams and I forgot about it. I think actually that the excitation leads are NOT tied together. I will test this when I start the engine again (presently under sail for I hope the next 12 hours with no need of the engine).

The Leece-Neville is 24 volts and is controlled by the Adverc and feeds the house batteries.

The Yanmar alternator is 12v and stock and feeds only the engine start batt.

There is no engine start batt in the Adverc domain, contrary to what is shown in the stock Adverc wiring diagram.
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Old 13-08-2015, 07:34   #22
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Re: Fried My Alternator :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericson38 View Post
I can't download your diagram. What model Neville alternator, what model adverc regulator ? You have a Yanmar 4JH3 block with two alternators ? What ones are they, and how did you set up your drive belts (just curious on that one)
The Leece-Neville is 110 amps * 24v and is driven by twin belts off the optional yanmar pulley set. This was part of the original build of my boat.

The Yanmar alternator is stock Hitachi.

The Adverc is the standard one -- I think it's just called "Adverc BM Controller".
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Old 13-08-2015, 08:07   #23
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Re: Fried My Alternator :(

I'd be wondering if there is something wrong with the Adverc. Your jumper, as described, should have provided voltage on the input side of the Adverc, and your results, as described, clearly indicate that you full-fielded the alternator.

Since the regulator should have been working, and controlling the field current to the alternator, does the Adverc have a problem? Is the voltage sensing wire or circuit having a problem (i.e. was it telling the Adverc low voltage)? Or has the regulation circuit failed in a way that causes full field?

It really seems that your test should have been fine, and should have provided regulated alternator output, but it appears it didn't. So is the failure of the alternator a cascade from a problem with the regulator?

Hard to diagnose from thousands of kilometers away, but that's where my thoughts went after reading through the thread.
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Old 13-08-2015, 08:25   #24
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Re: Fried My Alternator :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
I'd be wondering if there is something wrong with the Adverc. Your jumper, as described, should have provided voltage on the input side of the Adverc, and your results, as described, clearly indicate that you full-fielded the alternator.

Since the regulator should have been working, and controlling the field current to the alternator, does the Adverc have a problem? Is the voltage sensing wire or circuit having a problem (i.e. was it telling the Adverc low voltage)? Or has the regulation circuit failed in a way that causes full field?

It really seems that your test should have been fine, and should have provided regulated alternator output, but it appears it didn't. So is the failure of the alternator a cascade from a problem with the regulator?

Hard to diagnose from thousands of kilometers away, but that's where my thoughts went after reading through the thread.
The Adverc can be disabled by unplugging it, and the normal regulator goes back into service. One of the many things I like about it.

Thanks for the tip -- I'll try unplugging the Adverc. I've got nothing better to do for the next 500 miles before I get to somewhere where the alternator can be rebuilt
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Old 13-08-2015, 08:28   #25
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Re: Fried My Alternator :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Hmm, now that's a really good question. That part is not shown on any of my wiring diagrams and I forgot about it. I think actually that the excitation leads are NOT tied together. I will test this when I start the engine again (presently under sail for I hope the next 12 hours with no need of the engine).

The Leece-Neville is 24 volts and is controlled by the Adverc and feeds the house batteries.

The Yanmar alternator is 12v and stock and feeds only the engine start batt.

There is no engine start batt in the Adverc domain, contrary to what is shown in the stock Adverc wiring diagram.
OK, so the two green leads aren't tied together (12 v and 24 volt sense lines), like in the twin alternator, single engine adverc diagram.

Is your Yanmar engine panel set up for the house (24V) or the start battery (12V) ? Most likely the start battery. So the adverc BM controller you have is a 24 volt type ? If so, and the ignition switch on the Yanmar control panel is 12 V, based on the start battery/alternator circuits, then the adverc is not connected right, I don't think, since that brown wire is really the bus sense line for the controller.
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Old 13-08-2015, 11:53   #26
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Re: Fried My Alternator :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericson38 View Post
OK, so the two green leads aren't tied together (12 v and 24 volt sense lines), like in the twin alternator, single engine adverc diagram.

Is your Yanmar engine panel set up for the house (24V) or the start battery (12V) ? Most likely the start battery. So the adverc BM controller you have is a 24 volt type ? If so, and the ignition switch on the Yanmar control panel is 12 V, based on the start battery/alternator circuits, then the adverc is not connected right, I don't think, since that brown wire is really the bus sense line for the controller.
Yes, we are set up like that. It's hard to make sense out of the wiring diagram -- because there are several separate ones. There is a relay which connects the excitation circuit to power. There is a tap off that terminal of the alternator which is connected to the relay which actuates the the engine room blowers. It shows all that connected to ground, too, which I can't understand.

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Old 13-08-2015, 13:52   #27
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Re: Fried My Alternator :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Yes, we are set up like that. It's hard to make sense out of the wiring diagram -- because there are several separate ones. There is a relay which connects the excitation circuit to power. There is a tap off that terminal of the alternator which is connected to the relay which actuates the the engine room blowers. It shows all that connected to ground, too, which I can't understand.

Attachment 107223
Do you have both 12 and 24 volts present on the back of the Yanmar Engine Panel ? In your first two posts you mentioned that you were careful to identify the 12 volt and 24 volt leads, so wondering about that.
Are all the posts on the ignition switch at the same voltage (12 or 24V) ? Most likely all 12 V, since the starter and it's solenoid and all the sensors are ran at 12V.

Looking at your (Moody 54 ?) schematic, the blower is ran at 24 volts, and that is tied to the Yanmar ignition switch, or to a relay (below).

The diagram doesn't include the Adverc BM controller, right ?

You should operate the rebuilt alternator with the internal regulator without the Adverc BM controller connected, at first.

Then with the Adverc. The Adverc needs 24 volts as a reference, which is what the brown (Adverc) to alternator (D+) post was energized at. In order to get that with a 12 volt panel, there must be an added separate relay (you mentioned one) that, once energized across the coil (via ignition switch 12 volt source), closes its points that then connect the brown wire to 24 volts from the house bank. In your diagram there is one circled in red (at the helm panel). I think this performs the 12-24 volt isolation task.

Then the Adverc should light up for you, and the house battery charge rate increase more than with the internal regulator.
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Old 13-08-2015, 17:27   #28
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Re: Fried My Alternator :(

Do any of you check your spare bits occasionally?
When I read GILow's comment about having a alternator in a airtight bag I thought I better check my spare bits.
The whoke spares philosophy is an interesting one I for one one love having backups if backups and often have to stoo myself from hording!


Anyway I font think you did anything wrong and I would have done exactly what you did plus pulled the alternator apart to see what burnt inside.
I also would not have carried a spare alternator but I do have a big battery bank.

Please post the final outcome, I will he interested to hear what fimally happened!

Sooner or later we might all be facing that problem as we keep adding devices. I just fitted a windlass that takes 100A and only have two 55A alternators for example. So will have to remember running both engines when anchoring!!
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Old 13-08-2015, 17:30   #29
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Re: Fried My Alternator :(

Suggestion out of left field.

Its possible that the Fan motor had a fault and either blue a fuse or sank the voltage going to the alternator, meaning, the ignition wire is skinny and amp^2 times resistance made your field current go low.

Suggest you have blown the fan not the Alternator.
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Old 13-08-2015, 18:21   #30
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Re: Fried My Alternator :(

When testing the alternator, remember that diodes fail shorted. If you find failed diode(s) it's a great indicator of over current. Wish I was there to help. It will often happen that the regulator will eat the alternator and visa versa...happened to me on a truck and a car. Worst case you need a new alternator and regulator.

Typical Yanmar ignition switch issue as well. I experienced the starter relay voltage issue at an inconvenient location...never again..installed a momentary bypass switch to the starter solenoid...cleaned up all the contacts to the Yanmar switch never had the issue since.
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