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Old 23-09-2016, 17:14   #46
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Re: Firefly Oasis Carbon Foam AGM Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
If using return amps for defining 100% the ranges for a full AGM vary from about 0.3% of Ah capacity at absorption to 0.5% of Ah capacity at absorption voltage.

East Penn
Odyssey
Northstar
0.3% at absorption voltage is 100% SOC (100Ah battery = 0.3A at 14.4V - 14.7V)

Lifeline
0.5% at absorption voltage (100Ah battery = 0.5A at 14.4V)
Mainesail,

Actually Odyssey/NorthStar require 0.001C10
From Technical Manual Sept 2016

Crazy, huh? What is full charge is an interesting debate (at least to battery nerds)
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Old 23-09-2016, 19:43   #47
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Re: Firefly Oasis Carbon Foam AGM Batteries

Mainesail?
"PSOC walk down does not mean this capacity loss is permanent, just that sulfate has formed and is not allowing the same amount of "usable" energy to be stored in the battery at the same charge rate and duration as the cycle before."
Wouldn't this indicate that we are all being distracted byissues like high-amperage 100% charging, when the real solution is to pay attention to desulfating? Which in turn means looking again at concepts like high-frequency pulsing, perhaps at higher voltages than are normally used in obsolete 3 or 4 stage charging, and crossing the line into equalization, and in general, re-examining the conventional simplistic charging strategies?
Since microprocessors and MPPT systems can vary voltage and amperage and frequency on the fly and about as easily as flipping a light switch...Perhaps it is time to examine the real factors and some novel (or at least, not currently accepted) ideas about how charging should be done in the first place.
Oh, and the feds are looking at a zinc-manganse battery chemistry that everyone thought would be useless fifty years ago. Except, now they've tweaked some of the molecular issues, and their quiet murmurs are that IF it works out, lithium will be a has-been as well. FWIW. (There's a shortage of news on the topic, so don't place any bets yet.)
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Old 23-09-2016, 20:45   #48
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Re: Firefly Oasis Carbon Foam AGM Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Mainesail?
"PSOC walk down does not mean this capacity loss is permanent, just that sulfate has formed and is not allowing the same amount of "usable" energy to be stored in the battery at the same charge rate and duration as the cycle before."
Wouldn't this indicate that we are all being distracted byissues like high-amperage 100% charging, when the real solution is to pay attention to desulfating? Which in turn means looking again at concepts like high-frequency pulsing, perhaps at higher voltages than are normally used in obsolete 3 or 4 stage charging, and crossing the line into equalization, and in general, re-examining the conventional simplistic charging strategies?
Since microprocessors and MPPT systems can vary voltage and amperage and frequency on the fly and about as easily as flipping a light switch...Perhaps it is time to examine the real factors and some novel (or at least, not currently accepted) ideas about how charging should be done in the first place.
Oh, and the feds are looking at a zinc-manganse battery chemistry that everyone thought would be useless fifty years ago. Except, now they've tweaked some of the molecular issues, and their quiet murmurs are that IF it works out, lithium will be a has-been as well. FWIW. (There's a shortage of news on the topic, so don't place any bets yet.)
Hellosailor,

My understanding is frequency pulsing has turned out to be a boondoggle. So it would seem there's not much to build on there.

As regards that new battery teaser from the feds, bear in mind there are currently around 75 development stage battery companies/technologies circling and barking as the next best thing. But since it takes around $500M to get a viable production manufacturing line going, these "promising" technologies are unlikely to get out of the lab. Elon Musk's Gigafactory is being funded at $5 billion. Winner. Continuing incremental improvements to Li-Ion seems to be the near term viable future.
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Old 23-09-2016, 20:54   #49
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Re: Firefly Oasis Carbon Foam AGM Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Mainesail?
"PSOC walk down does not mean this capacity loss is permanent, just that sulfate has formed and is not allowing the same amount of "usable" energy to be stored in the battery at the same charge rate and duration as the cycle before."
Wouldn't this indicate that we are all being distracted byissues like high-amperage 100% charging, when the real solution is to pay attention to desulfating? Which in turn means looking again at concepts like high-frequency pulsing, perhaps at higher voltages than are normally used in obsolete 3 or 4 stage charging, and crossing the line into equalization, and in general, re-examining the conventional simplistic charging strategies?
Since microprocessors and MPPT systems can vary voltage and amperage and frequency on the fly and about as easily as flipping a light switch...Perhaps it is time to examine the real factors and some novel (or at least, not currently accepted) ideas about how charging should be done in the first place.
Oh, and the feds are looking at a zinc-manganse battery chemistry that everyone thought would be useless fifty years ago. Except, now they've tweaked some of the molecular issues, and their quiet murmurs are that IF it works out, lithium will be a has-been as well. FWIW. (There's a shortage of news on the topic, so don't place any bets yet.)
Hellosailor,

My understanding is frequency pulsing has turned out to be a boondoggle. So it would seem there's not much to build on there.

As regards that new battery teaser from the feds, bear in mind there are currently around 75 development stage battery companies/technologies circling and barking as the next best thing. But since it takes around $500M to get a viable production manufacturing line going, these "promising" technologies are unlikely to get out of the lab. Elon Musk's Gigafactory is being funded at $5 billion. Winner. Continuing incremental improvements to Li-Ion seems to be the near term viable future.
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Old 24-09-2016, 08:49   #50
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Re: Firefly Oasis Carbon Foam AGM Batteries

I felt the same way about the "desulphators" in general, but the phrase "Die Vampire, Die!" keeps coming to mind. And from more reputable sources, I was told that simply using pulsed DC instead of pure DC, can make a battery charge faster, as a higher absorption rate. Apparently pure DC causes continuous heating where the electrolyte hits the plates, which causes microbubbles, which in turn are "boiling" the electrolyte and raising the resistance (gas instead of all fluid), while pulsed DC can apply more power, and the shorter duration pulses allow the electrolyte to move around and remain cooler overall.<P>
In that context, maybe there's at least one frequency range and voltage point that would successfully break down sulfation without causing other harm. Like the difference between a kazoo and a flute: They're both "the same" but the little differences count.
Or, presumably, the "carbon foam" in the Firefly AGMs is preventing the sulphates from becoming fixed. How long did it take before anyone suspected, or ran across, that idea?
There's just something subtle going on, that has to be causing some of these differences. It certainly seems to elude most of us.
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